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Avodah Zarah 16a

עבודה זרה ט״ז ע״א

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Topic

Selling weapons and animals to non-Jews: shields, iron, broken animals, horses, fattened oxen, and wild animals (עבודה זרה ט״ז ע״א)

Overview

The גמרא finishes its discussion of which war items may be sold to non-Jews. It rules like the יש אומרים that shields may be sold, limits רב אדא בר אהבה's ban on iron blocks to special Indian iron, and explains that weapons are sold nowadays to the Persians who protect us. Next it turns to the משנה's ban on selling large animals. רבי יהודה allows selling a broken animal, and the חכמים argue with him. בן בתירא allows selling a horse, רבי forbids it for two reasons, and רבי יוחנן rules like בן בתירא. The גמרא then asks about an ox being fattened for slaughter, tries a proof from a story about רבי's household, and rejects it. A new משנה forbids selling dangerous animals and helping build certain public structures. The גמרא brings רב's rule that a large wild animal counts as large livestock for selling, and starts answering a challenge from the משנה; that answer continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

אִי אֶפְשָׁר, הָכִי נָמֵי.

If it were possible, indeed it would be so.

אִיכָּא דְּאָמְרִי:

There are those who say:

תְּרִיסִין הַיְינוּ טַעְמָא דְּלָא,

Shields, this is the reason they may not be sold:

דְּכִי שְׁלִים זֵינַיְיהוּ

because when their weapons are finished,

The steps (32)

  1. ResolutionIf it could be avoided, it would be forbidden
  2. StatementA second explanation of the shield argument
  3. ConclusionThe הלכה follows the יש אומרים
  4. StatementNo selling blocks of iron
  5. ChallengeThen hoes and axes should be forbidden too
  6. ResolutionIt means Indian iron
  7. ChallengeBut nowadays we do sell weapons
  8. ResolutionWe sell to the Persians who protect us
  9. Statementרבי יהודה allows selling a broken animal
  10. ChallengeThe חכמים: she can still give birth
  11. Resolutionרבי יהודה: when she gives birth
  12. ConclusionSo a broken animal cannot mate
  13. Statementבן בתירא allows selling a horse
  14. Statementרבי forbids selling a horse for two reasons
  15. QuestionWhat does רבי mean by the large-animal reason?
  16. ResponseAn old horse is used to grind
  17. ConclusionThe law follows בן בתירא
  18. QuestionWhat about an ox being fattened?
  19. QuestionWhy the question exists for רבי יהודה
  20. QuestionThe other side: maybe even the רבנן permit a fattened ox
  21. ProofStory: רבי's household bribed their way out of giving a fattened ox
  22. ProofThe inference: they feared the ox would be kept for work
  23. RejectionPushback: then why pay to move it to the next day?
  24. ResolutionThe real reason: רבי wanted to end the practice slowly
  25. QuestionCan a fattened ox really become fit for work?
  26. Responseרב אשי: a kept young ox works twice as hard
  27. StatementNo selling dangerous animals to non-Jews
  28. StatementWhich buildings one may or may not help build
  29. Statementרב: a large wild animal is like small livestock for the twitch test, but not for selling
  30. StatementA second view: even for selling it is like small livestock
  31. ChallengeChallenge to רב from our משנה
  32. Resolutionרבה בר עולא: the משנה is talking about a broken lion