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Avodah Zarah 7b

עבודה זרה ז׳ ע״ב

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Topic

Accepting returning sinners, the days around the festivals of עובדי כוכבים, the rejected rulings of נחום המדי, and the order of praise and requests in prayer

Overview

The amud opens at the end of a ברייתא about people who return after doing wrong. רבי שמעון and רבי יהושע בן קרחה say they are accepted back even if they sinned in public, and רבי יוחנן rules like them. A new משנה follows. רבי ישמעאל forbids business with עובדי כוכבים three days before and three days after their festivals, while the חכמים forbid only the days before. The גמרא gives four possible ways the חכמים differ from the תנא קמא of the first משנה. The last of these involves נחום המדי, who forbids only one day before. This leads to a series of rulings by נחום המדי that the חכמים rejected with the words 'let the matter be forgotten.' Each time, a תנא who seems to agree with him turns out to hold something different. אביי points to one ruling of his that we follow: asking for personal needs in שומע תפלה. רב אחא answers that this idea goes back to a dispute between רבי אליעזר and רבי יהושע about whether requests or prayer come first. The גמרא traces that dispute to רבי שמלאי's rule, learned from משה רבינו, that praise of ה׳ comes before personal requests.

Opening lines

בְּפַרְהֶסְיָא — אֵין מְקַבְּלִין אוֹתָן.

If they did it in public, we do not accept them.

רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן וְרַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בֶּן קׇרְחָה אוֹמְרִים:

Rabbi Shimon and Rabbi Yehoshua ben Korcha say:

בֵּין כָּךְ וּבֵין כָּךְ מְקַבְּלִין,

Either way, we accept them,

שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״שׁוּבוּ בָּנִים שׁוֹבָבִים״.

As it says: "Return, you wayward children."

The steps (31)

  1. StatementThose who sinned in public are not accepted back
  2. StatementPenitents are always accepted, public or private
  3. ConclusionThe הלכה follows רבי שמעון and רבי יהושע בן קרחה
  4. StatementThe new משנה: which days around their festivals are forbidden
  5. StatementBy רבי ישמעאל's count, business with a נוצרי is always forbidden
  6. ChallengeAren't the חכמים saying the same as the first תנא?
  7. ResolutionThey differ on whether the festival day counts in the three days
  8. ResolutionSecond answer: business already done
  9. ResolutionThird answer: שמואל's ruling for the גולה
  10. ResolutionFourth answer: the view of נחום המדי
  11. Statementנחום המדי's ruling and the חכמים's rejection
  12. ChallengeBut the later חכמים agree with him
  13. ResolutionThose חכמים are נחום המדי himself
  14. Statementנחום המדי permits selling an old male horse in wartime
  15. ChallengeBut בן בתירא also permits selling a horse
  16. Resolutionנחום המדי really holds like the רבנן, not like בן בתירא
  17. Statementנחום המדי says dill is tithed in all its parts
  18. ChallengeBut רבי אליעזר says the same thing about dill
  19. Resolutionרבי אליעזר is talking about garden dill
  20. Questionרב אחא complains that the great man from his land is always rejected
  21. Responseאביי: we do follow נחום המדי on asking for needs in שומע תפלה
  22. RejectionThis ruling does not prove anything about נחום המדי
  23. Proofרבי אליעזר: ask for your needs first, then pray
  24. Statementרבי יהושע: pray first, then ask for your needs
  25. ChallengeWhat does רבי אליעזר do with רבי יהושע's פסוק?
  26. Resolutionרבי אליעזר reads the פסוק as 'once I have told my trouble'
  27. ChallengeWhat does רבי יהושע do with רבי אליעזר's פסוק?
  28. Resolutionרבי יהושע reads the פסוק as 'once he has prayed'
  29. QuestionThe verses cannot settle it, so what is the real dispute?
  30. ResponseThe dispute depends on רבי שמלאי's teaching
  31. ProofProof from משה רבינו: praise first, then the request