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Bava Basra 165b

בבא בתרא קס״ה ע״ב

Bava Batra 165b

Learn Bava Basra 165b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

The versions of the question sent to רבי ירמיה, and how to read unclear or conflicting amounts in a שטר

Overview

The amud opens by finishing an earlier question: why does the משנה say something as obvious as "one witness is not enough"? The גמרא answers that it is teaching that two witnesses on a מקושר are invalid by Torah law, just like one witness on a פשוט. Next, אמימר brings a proof that one written witness and one oral witness can join together, from a question the scholars of ארץ ישראל sent to רבי ירמיה. רב אשי, מר בר חייא and רבינא each tell that question differently: two courts, judges from two courts, or a court of three where one judge died. In every version רבי ירמיה humbly answers, and because of his answer he was brought back into the בית מדרש. A new משנה then teaches how to read a שטר whose amounts conflict or are partly erased. If the amounts disagree, the holder gets the smaller one. If the number is erased, he gets two coins. If the top and bottom disagree, the bottom amount decides. The גמרא then brings a ברייתא about vague words like 'silver' and 'gold' in a שטר. It explains, through רבי אלעזר and רב פפא, why these words mean at least one full דינר.

Opening lines

מַתְנִיתִין!

The mishna is still a difficulty!

הָא קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן –

It teaches us this:

דִּשְׁנַיִם בִּמְקוּשָּׁר,

that two witnesses on a tied document

כְּעֵד אֶחָד בְּפָשׁוּט;

are like one witness on an ordinary document.

The steps (27)

  1. ChallengeThe question on the משנה comes back
  2. ResolutionTwo witnesses on a tied document are like one witness on an ordinary document
  3. ProofThe question sent to רבי ירמיה: can a written witness and an oral witness join together?
  4. QuestionPinning down exactly what was asked
  5. Proofרבי ירמיה answers: they combine
  6. Rejectionרב אשי tells the story differently
  7. QuestionIn רב אשי's version, the question follows רבי נתן
  8. Responseרבי ירמיה answers in רב אשי's version: the two courts combine
  9. Questionמר בר חייא's version: combining one judge from each court
  10. QuestionThe question only works according to the תנא קמא
  11. Responseרבי ירמיה answers in מר בר חייא's version: the judges combine
  12. Questionרבינא's version: one of three judges died after ratifying a document
  13. Responseרבי ירמיה answers that they must write it
  14. ConclusionBecause of this answer, רבי ירמיה was brought back into the study hall
  15. StatementNew משנה: a document whose two amounts don't match
  16. StatementWhen the number after a plural coin word is erased, assume two
  17. StatementWhen the top and bottom amounts differ, follow the bottom
  18. QuestionThen why write the top amount at all?
  19. ResponseThe top amount is a backup
  20. StatementA ברייתא on vague coin words in a שטר
  21. ChallengeWhy not say 'silver' means just a scrap of silver?
  22. ResolutionThe שטר also says 'coin'
  23. ChallengeWhy not say it means tiny silver coins?
  24. ResolutionIn a place where small silver coins aren't used
  25. StatementThe ברייתא's rules for the word 'gold' in a שטר
  26. ChallengeWhy should plain 'gold' mean a whole gold coin?
  27. Resolutionרבי אלעזר: the שטר also wrote 'coin'