Gemara Clarity

Bava Basra 170a

בבא בתרא ק״ע ע״א

Bava Batra 170a

Learn Bava Basra 170a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Several explanations of the dispute between רבי and רבן שמעון בן גמליאל about proving ownership with a document: אותיות, unfit or missing witnesses, קיום of an admitted שטר, and לברר.

Overview

This amud keeps trying to explain a ברייתא where רבי and רבן שמעון בן גמליאל argue about proving ownership of land. רב דימי says they argue about whether the rights in a document (אותיות) pass by handing it over. אביי objects that this would make רבן שמעון בן גמליאל contradict himself. אביי then says the argument is about a document with an unfit witness, and ties it to the dispute between רבי אלעזר (handing-over witnesses count) and רבי מאיר (signing witnesses count). רבי אבא's teaching knocks this down, so רבי אבינא moves the case to a שטר with no witnesses signed on it at all. The גמרא then offers another explanation: they argue about whether a מודה בשטר שכתבו still needs קיום. A second ברייתא seems to show their views the other way around. The גמרא answers either by flipping the names, or by saying the first argument is about לברר, whether a person must back up every claim he makes. A story with רבי אבא and רבי יצחק נפחא illustrates לברר, and רבי אבא's final objection from רב גידל continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

רַבָּן שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן גַּמְלִיאֵל סָבַר:

Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel holds:

אֵין אוֹתִיּוֹת נִקְנוֹת בִּמְסִירָה,

letters are not acquired by handing over [the document],

וְרַבִּי סָבַר:

and Rabbi holds:

אוֹתִיּוֹת נִקְנוֹת בִּמְסִירָה.

letters are acquired by handing over [the document].

The steps (18)

  1. StatementCan the rights in a document be acquired by handing it over?
  2. Challengeאביי: this contradicts רבה
  3. Resolutionרב דימי: so let it disagree
  4. Challengeאביי's real point: רבן שמעון בן גמליאל would contradict himself
  5. Resolutionאביי's new explanation: one of the witnesses was unfit
  6. Resolutionאביי links the dispute to רבי מאיר and רבי אלעזר
  7. ChallengeChallenge from רבי אבא: רבי אלעזר also rejects a flawed document
  8. Resolutionרבי אבינא: the dispute is about a שטר with no witnesses at all
  9. ResolutionA new explanation: they argue about a document the signer admits he wrote
  10. ChallengeBut a ברייתא shows their opinions the other way around
  11. ChallengeRecalling an old question: why doesn't רבי say to split it, like the garment case?
  12. Resolutionרבא explains that the argument is only about an unproven document
  13. ResolutionFlip the names in one of the ברייתות
  14. ResolutionKeep the names, but the first argument is about לברר
  15. ProofThe case of רבי אבא and the named witnesses
  16. ChallengeThe borrower objects: repayment does not need witnesses
  17. ResolutionThe judge answers: I follow your own teaching
  18. ChallengeThe borrower pushes back with רב גידל's ruling