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Bava Basra 23a

בבא בתרא כ״ג ע״א

Bava Batra 23a

Learn Bava Basra 23a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Bava Basra 23a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

רב יוסף's palm trees (גרמא and אין חזקה לנזקין), the משנה on distancing a dovecote (שובך), and a buyer's חזקה (טוענין ללוקח)

Overview

The amud finishes a story about רב יוסף's palm trees. Bloodletters sat under the trees, crows came for the blood, and the crows ruined his dates. רב יוסף told the bloodletters to leave. When אביי objected, רב יוסף answered with two rules: גרמא בנזיקין אסור and אין חזקה לנזקין. He added that, because he is sensitive, this damage counts as severe for him. A new משנה then teaches that a dovecote must be kept 50 אמות from a city and from one's own property line. רבי יהודה requires a bigger area, and someone who bought a dovecote may keep it where it is. The גמרא explains that doves fly far, which is why traps must be 30 ריס away, but they are full after 50 אמות. It then explains a ברייתא about 100 מיל as referring to an area of vineyards or of many dovecotes. Next, רב פפא learns from the buyer's case that בית דין makes claims for a buyer and an heir, and the גמרא shows why both משניות about buyers are needed. Finally, it explains that אין חזקה לנזקין covers only severe harm like smoke or a bathroom, so a buyer can keep a dovecote.

Opening lines

אָתוּ אוּמָּנֵי וְיָתְבִי תּוּתַיְיהוּ,

Bloodletters would come and sit beneath them,

וְאָתוּ עוֹרְבֵי אָכְלִי דְּמָא,

and crows would come and eat the blood,

וְסָלְקִי אַבֵּי תָאלֵי וּמַפְסְדִי תַּמְרֵי.

and go up onto the palm trees and ruin the dates.

אֲמַר לְהוּ רַב יוֹסֵף:

Rav Yosef said to them:

The steps (25)

  1. StatementCrows ruin רב יוסף's dates, and he tells the bloodletters to leave
  2. Challengeאביי objects that this is only indirect damage
  3. ResolutionIndirect damage is still forbidden
  4. Challengeאביי objects that the bloodletters already have a right to that spot
  5. ResolutionNo right can be earned to cause damage
  6. ChallengeThat rule was said only about smoke or a bathroom
  7. ResolutionFor a sensitive person, this is as bad as smoke
  8. Statementמשנה: Keep a dovecote 50 אמות away
  9. StatementA bought dovecote may stay where it is
  10. ChallengeDo doves really fly only 50 אמות?
  11. ResolutionDoves fly far but fill up within fifty cubits
  12. ChallengeA ברייתא says doves fly even farther
  13. Resolutionרב יוסף: the ברייתא means an area full of vineyards
  14. Resolutionרבא: the ברייתא means an area full of dovecotes
  15. ChallengeWhy not forbid it because of the dovecotes themselves?
  16. ResolutionThe nearby dovecotes are ones he may trap from
  17. Statementרב פפא: the court makes claims for a buyer and an heir
  18. ChallengeThe heir rule is already taught
  19. ResolutionThe point is the buyer
  20. ChallengeThe buyer rule is also already taught
  21. ResolutionBoth cases are needed: the public-domain case alone would not teach the private case
  22. ResolutionBoth cases are needed: the private case alone would not teach the public case
  23. ChallengeHow can there be a חזקה for something that causes damage?
  24. Resolutionרב מרי: the rule is about smoke
  25. Resolutionרב זביד: the rule is about a bathroom