Bava Basra 32b

בבא בתרא ל״ב ע״ב

Bava Batra 32b

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Topic

Two cases where a person admits privately to the judge that his document is forged, but says he once had a real one that got lost. רבה wants to believe him because he could have lied better (מה לו לשקר), and רב יוסף objects that a forged document is worthless.

Overview

This amud finishes a story about a man living on a field who showed a bill of sale. The original owner said it was forged, and the man quietly admitted it to רבה but said he once had a real one that got lost. רבה believes him, since he could have just said the document was real (מה לו לשקר). רב יוסף objects that a forged document is worthless and gives nothing to rely on. The same argument repeats in a matching case about a loan document. רב אידי בר אבין rules: follow רבה for land and רב יוסף for money, so in both cases things stay where they are. אביי then uses that rule to decide a guarantor's claim, and the גמרא limits it: coins handed back because they were worn or discolored never counted as payment, so the document still works. Finally, a rumor spreads that רבא בר שרשום is profiting from orphans' land. When אביי asks what happened, he begins explaining that he held it as a משכנתא from their father, and his explanation continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (14)

1. StatementThe owner says the bill of sale is forged, and the holder quietly admits it
2. Statementרבה believes him because he could have told a better lie
3. Challengeרב יוסף objects that a forged document is worthless
4. StatementA second case: a forged loan document
5. Statementרבה again believes him because he could have told a better lie
6. Challengeרב יוסף again objects that a forged document is worthless
7. ConclusionFinal ruling: follow רבה for land and רב יוסף for money
8. StatementA guarantor demands money with a document the borrower says he already paid off
9. Questionרב אידי בר אבין asks אביי about the guarantor case
10. Responseאביי answers: your own rule says the money stays where it is
11. ConclusionLimit: if the coins were returned because they were bad, the document still works
12. StatementA rumor about רבא בר שרשום and orphans' land
13. Questionאביי asks what really happened
14. Responseרבא בר שרשום explains he held the land as a pledge