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Bava Basra 45b

בבא בתרא מ״ה ע״ב

Bava Batra 45b

Learn Bava Basra 45b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Whether an אומן holding someone's item can claim it, the role of עדים in giving and returning a deposit, and how רבה reads the related ברייתות.

Overview

This amud continues a discussion of an אומן (craftsman) who is holding someone's item. First the גמרא asks whether a deposit given in front of עדים can be returned without them. It answers that it must be returned in front of עדים, so the craftsman cannot claim 'I gave it back.' Then אביי brings a ברייתא about a slave held by a craftsman and a cloak held by a launderer. The גמרא first clarifies the ברייתא. In its second case, רבה explains that a third person is believed because of a מיגו: he could have said 'I bought it from you.' אביי then challenges רבה from the word 'he saw' in the first case. רבה answers that there were עדים and the owner also had to see the item. When אביי points out that this clashes with רבה's own rule about returning before עדים, רבה says he retracted it. Finally רבא brings a ברייתא about a dispute over a craftsman's fee to support רבה. He begins to show that it must be a case without עדים, and his proof continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

הַמַּפְקִיד אֵצֶל חֲבֵירוֹ בְּעֵדִים –

One who deposits an item with his fellow in front of witnesses,

אֵינוֹ צָרִיךְ לְהַחְזִיר לוֹ בְּעֵדִים?

does he not need to have it returned to him in front of witnesses?

לָא סָלְקָא דַּעְתָּךְ –

Do not think so!

אֶלָּא הַמַּפְקִיד אֵצֶל חֲבֵירוֹ בְּעֵדִים,

Rather, one who deposits an item with his fellow in front of witnesses

The steps (11)

  1. ChallengeDoes a deposit made before witnesses not need witnesses to be returned?
  2. ResolutionRejected: a deposit given before witnesses must be returned before witnesses
  3. Challengeאביי brings the ברייתא of the slave and the cloak
  4. QuestionWhat is the difference between the two cases of the ברייתא?
  5. Responseרבה: the second case is about a third person, believed through a מיגו
  6. Challengeאביי's challenge from the words 'he saw'
  7. Resolutionרבה: there are witnesses, and he also saw it
  8. Challengeאביי: that clashes with your own rule
  9. Resolutionרבה: I took that rule back
  10. Proofרבא brings a ברייתא about a craftsman's fee to support רבה
  11. QuestionWhat case is the ברייתא about? It cannot be one with witnesses