Bava Basra 79b

בבא בתרא ע״ט ע״ב

Bava Batra 79b

Learn Bava Basra 79b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Bava Basra 79b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

מעילה on a consecrated בור and שובך: the empty case (דבר שלא בא לעולם) and the full case (learning הקדש from an ordinary sale)

Overview

The גמרא shows that רבה's first version can't be right, so it rewords it. The מחלוקת between the תנא קמא and רבי אלעזר בר' שמעון is only about a בור (cistern) and a שובך (dovecote). For a field and a tree, everyone agrees there is מעילה on the item and on what is in it. When the בור or שובך is empty, the argument is the famous one between רבי מאיר and the רבנן about transferring a דבר שלא בא לעולם. רבא answers a challenge to this by showing cases where the water or doves really are expected to come. When the בור is full and was consecrated סתם, the question is whether we learn הקדש from an ordinary sale (דנין דין גבוה מדין הדיוט). If we do, then just as a seller can keep the water, the water is not consecrated. The גמרא then challenges this from our משנה, which says selling a cistern includes its water. רבא answers that the משנה follows the lone view of רבי נתן.

Opening lines

The steps (11)

1. ChallengeWhy would he reverse the ruling for a field and a tree?
2. Resolutionרבה reworded: the dispute is only about a cistern and a dovecote
3. QuestionWhat is the argument about when they are empty, and when they are full?
4. ResponseEmpty case: the dispute between רבי מאיר and the רבנן
5. Challengeרבי מאיר only spoke about things that are likely to come
6. Resolutionרבא: cases where the water or doves are expected to come
7. QuestionWhat is the argument when the cistern or dovecote is full?
8. Responseרבא: he consecrated the cistern without mentioning the water
9. ResponseThe תנא קמא does not compare הקדש to a sale
10. ChallengeBut our משנה says selling a cistern includes its water
11. Resolutionרבא: the משנה follows the lone view of רבי נתן