Bava Basra 84b

בבא בתרא פ״ד ע״ב

Bava Batra 84b

Learn Bava Basra 84b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Bava Basra 84b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Wine and vinegar as one kind or two, and how produce is acquired: pulling, measuring, and the סמטא.

Overview

The amud opens by finishing an earlier question. רבנן call wine and vinegar 'one kind', but only for separating תרומה and מעשר, following רבי אילעא's rule that תרומה from worse produce for better produce still counts. For buying and selling, everyone agrees they are two kinds, because people want different things. A new משנה then teaches that produce is acquired by pulling (משיכה), not by measuring. It adds that a smart buyer rents the spot where the produce lies, and that flax must be carried, or detached if it is still growing. In the גמרא, רבי אסי quotes רבי יוחנן that measuring produce and setting it in a סמטא acquires it, but רבי זירא suggests this only means measuring into the buyer's basket. A second quote of רבי יוחנן shows that רבי זירא is right: in a סמטא, the basket acquires and the bare ground does not. The גמרא then works out where the משנה takes place. Using אביי and רבא's rule on where each kind of acquisition works, it explains that the pulling is from רשות הרבים into a סמטא, and that the renting line is about privately owned land. The amud ends just as a new teaching of רב and שמואל begins.

Opening lines

The steps (23)

1. ProofThe ברייתא: wine and vinegar, one kind or two?
2. Resolutionרבנן only meant one kind for תרומה and מעשר
3. Proofרבי אילעא: תרומה from worse produce for better produce
4. ProofWhy the פסוק proves the תרומה counts
5. ConclusionFor buying and selling, everyone agrees they are two kinds
6. StatementPulling acquires produce, measuring does not
7. StatementFlax must be carried, or detached if still growing
8. StatementProduce measured and placed in an alley is acquired
9. ChallengeMaybe it was only about measuring into the buyer's basket
10. RejectionMeasuring into the buyer's basket is too obvious to need saying
11. QuestionDid רבי זירא accept רבי אסי's answer?
12. ProofProof from a partners' courtyard
13. RejectionNo, it means into the buyer's basket
14. ProofLogic supports רבי זירא
15. ConclusionYes, learn from it
16. ProofAnother proof from the משנה
17. RejectionNo, it is in the public domain
18. ChallengePulling does not work in the public domain
19. Proofאביי and רבא: where each kind of acquisition works
20. ResolutionPulling means pulling from the public road into an alleyway
21. ChallengeRenting the spot makes no sense on a public road
22. ResolutionThe renting line is about a different, privately owned place
23. StatementIntroducing a teaching from רב and שמואל