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Bava Kamma 104b

בבא קמא ק״ד ע״ב

Learn Bava Kamma 104b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Collecting a debt through a messenger, and whether a robber's heirs must pay the חומש

Overview

The amud opens with שמואל's ruling that a debtor may not pay a messenger who only shows the creditor's personal sign (דיוקני), even if witnesses signed it. רבי יוחנן allows it when witnesses are signed. Following שמואל, the story of רבי אבא and רבא shows that a receipt (התקבלתי) is not enough, because the creditor might die and the debt would pass to his heirs. The real fix is to transfer the debt to the messenger through land (קנין אגב קרקע), as רב פפא did. The גמרא then returns to the משנה and proves from several sources that חומש is ממון, so יורשין must pay it. A ברייתא seems to say the opposite: the heir is free of חומש because he did not rob, though he does pay the קרן. רב נחמן answers that the sources differ over whether the robber admitted. After pushback, the גמרא explains the case as one where the father did not admit but the son did, the stolen item is gone, and the father left land. The amud ends with a new problem: a debt like this is an oral loan (מלוה על פה), which cannot be collected from heirs. The answer begins on the next amud.

Opening lines

אֵין מְשַׁלְּחִין מָעוֹת בִּדְיוֹקְנֵי,

One may not send money on the basis of a sign-figure,

וַאֲפִילּוּ עֵדִים חֲתוּמִים עָלֶיהָ.

and even if witnesses are signed on it.

וְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר:

And רבי יוחנן says:

אִם עֵדִים חֲתוּמִים עָלֶיהָ – מְשַׁלְּחִין.

If witnesses are signed on it, one may send.

The steps (25)

  1. StatementA creditor's sign is not enough to send money
  2. Statementרבי יוחנן allows it when witnesses are signed
  3. QuestionWhat can a creditor do according to שמואל?
  4. Responseרבי אבא's messenger and the first idea: a receipt
  5. ChallengeA receipt fails if the creditor dies
  6. QuestionThen what is the solution?
  7. ResponseTransfer the debt to the messenger through land
  8. Proofרב פפא used this method
  9. StatementFrom the משנה: the fifth is real money, so heirs pay it
  10. ProofSecond proof: a fifth is added on top of a fifth
  11. ProofThird proof: a ברייתא says heirs pay the fifth
  12. ChallengeChallenge: another ברייתא limits when heirs pay the fifth
  13. ChallengeThe ברייתא continues: even when someone swore, the heir is free of חומש
  14. Resolutionרב נחמן: it depends on whether the father admitted
  15. ChallengeIf he never admitted, the heir would not pay even the קרן
  16. ProofThe same ברייתא says the heir pays the קרן in every case
  17. Questionרבה asks his father exactly what wording he said
  18. Responseרב הונא: there is a derivation from the extra words in the פסוק
  19. ResolutionNew meaning of 'did not admit': the father didn't, but the son did
  20. ChallengeThen the son should pay חומש for his own oath
  21. ResolutionThe stolen item no longer exists
  22. ChallengeIf the item is gone, he shouldn't pay even the קרן
  23. ResolutionThe father left land
  24. ChallengeLand doesn't help: this is an oral loan
  25. ResolutionThe Sages begin their reply