Bava Kamma 11a

בבא קמא י״א ע״א

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Topic

Carcass loss and hauling in damages, appraisal (שומא) for thieves and borrowers, and counting from a שליא that came out over two days

Overview

The amud begins by finishing a ברייתא about a שומר whose animal was mauled. The תנא קמא says he brings witnesses, and אבא שאול says he brings the carcass to בית דין. The גמרא first suggests that they argue about פחת נבילה, the loss when the carcass drops in value. It then concludes that everyone agrees the ניזק bears that loss, and the argument is only about טורח נבילה, the work of hauling the carcass. אביי and רבא then define when that work rule matters: only when lifting the carcass out does not raise its value, like a beam that costs the same in town and in the field. Next, שמואל rules that the court appraises damaged items for נזקין but not for a גנב or a גזלן. The גמרא works out that a שואל does get appraisal, and it rules that way in the final הלכה. Finally, עולא rules on a שליא that came out over two days, and רבא objects that counting from the first day is a strictness that leads to a leniency. The גמרא then asks what עולא's ruling adds beyond a משנה, and its answer continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (19)

1. StatementWitnesses or the carcass: the end of the ברייתא
2. ProofSuggesting they argue about the carcass losing value
3. RejectionNo, they argue about the effort of hauling the carcass
4. ProofSupport: אחרים say the pit owner must raise the ox
5. Questionאביי asks what case the work of lifting the carcass is talking about
6. Responseרבא: the rule is needed when the carcass is worth the same everywhere
7. QuestionIs there really a case where the price stays the same?
8. ResponseYes: a beam costs the same in town and in the field
9. Statementשמואל: appraisal is only for damages, and also for a borrower
10. QuestionWhat did שמואל mean by 'even for a borrower'?
11. ProofProof from the broken ax: no appraisal
12. RejectionOn the contrary: רב's silence shows they do appraise
13. Statementעולא and רב פפי argue about appraisal for a thief and a robber
14. ConclusionThe final halacha: no appraisal for a thief or robber, but yes for a borrower
15. StatementCounting from the first day when an afterbirth comes out over two days
16. Challengeרבא objects: a strictness that leads to a leniency
17. Statementרבא's own approach: be strict, but count from the second day
18. ChallengeWhat does עולא's ruling add? A משנה already teaches it
19. ResolutionBeginning the answer: from the משנה alone we might have thought differently