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Bava Kamma 3b

בבא קמא ג׳ ע״ב

Learn Bava Kamma 3b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Finding which תולדה רב פפא meant is unlike its אב (צרורות of רגל), and the רב and שמואל dispute over the meaning of מבעה

Overview

רב פפא taught that some of the main damage categories (אבות) have sub-types (תולדות) that are not like them. The גמרא searches for which category he meant. Obstacles in the street turn out to be just like בור or שור. The תולדות of מבעה and of אש also turn out to be just like their אב, so neither can be his example. The answer is רגל: צרורות, pebbles kicked up by a walking animal, pay only חצי נזק by a tradition, yet they still count as a תולדה of רגל. For רב פפא this is because they are paid from the best property. For רבא, who was unsure about that, it is because they are exempt in רשות הרבים. The גמרא then asks what the משנה's word מבעה means. רב says אדם and שמואל says שן, and each brings a פסוק and a grammar argument. In the end, רב reasons that שור already covers all ox damage, while רב יהודה explains that for שמואל, שור means the horn and מבעה means the tooth, which enjoys the damage it does.

Opening lines

וְאִי דְּלָא אַפְקְרִינְהוּ –

And if he did not declare them ownerless –

אִי לִשְׁמוּאֵל, דְּאָמַר:

if according to Shmuel, who says:

כּוּלָּם מִבּוֹרוֹ לָמַדְנוּ,

we learned all of them from his pit,

הַיְינוּ בּוֹר;

this is the same as Pit;

The steps (40)

  1. ChallengeObstacles not declared ownerless are still just like their main category
  2. ProofWhy obstacles really match the features of a pit
  3. ResolutionNew suggestion: רב פפא meant the sub-types of מבעה
  4. QuestionWhat is מבעה?
  5. ChallengeFor שמואל, מבעה is שן, which is already settled
  6. ChallengeFor רב, מבעה is אדם, but what sub-types would a person have?
  7. ResolutionProposal: awake is the main type, asleep is the sub-type
  8. RejectionA משנה says a person is liable whether awake or asleep
  9. ResolutionA new suggestion: spit and phlegm
  10. QuestionAsking how the spit case works
  11. RejectionSpit is either a person's own force or a pit
  12. ConclusionThe תולדה of מבעה is like מבעה
  13. ResolutionPerhaps רב פפא meant a תולדה of fire
  14. QuestionWhat is a תולדה of fire?
  15. ChallengeItems damaging while falling are just fire
  16. ProofProving the roof items match fire exactly
  17. ConclusionThe תולדה of fire is like fire
  18. ResolutionPerhaps רב פפא meant a תולדה of foot
  19. ChallengeBut we already said foot's תולדה is like foot
  20. ResolutionPebbles: half damage from a tradition
  21. ChallengeWhy call pebbles a subcategory of foot damage?
  22. ResolutionIt shares payment from the best property
  23. ChallengeBut רבא was unsure about this very point
  24. Resolutionרבא was unsure, but רב פפא was certain
  25. ChallengeFor רבא, what links pebbles to foot damage?
  26. ResolutionExempt in the public domain, like רגל
  27. QuestionWhat does the word מבעה mean?
  28. Responseרב says a person, שמואל says eating
  29. Proofרב's source: a verse about asking
  30. Proofשמואל's source: a verse about hidden things revealed
  31. QuestionHow does this verse point to eating?
  32. Responseרב יוסף's Aramaic translation: 'revealed'
  33. ChallengeWhy doesn't רב agree with שמואל?
  34. ResolutionThe משנה says מבעה, not נבעה
  35. ChallengeWhy doesn't שמואל read it like רב?
  36. Resolutionשמואל: the משנה doesn't say בועה
  37. ChallengeThe פסוקים don't decide, so why does רב reject שמואל?
  38. Resolutionרב: 'שור' already covers everything an ox does
  39. ChallengeThe same problem for שמואל
  40. Resolutionרב יהודה: שור is the horn, מבעה is the tooth