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Bava Kamma 4b

בבא קמא ד׳ ע״ב

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Topic

The meaning of מבעה, and how the lists of main damages from the משנה, רבי אושעיא (thirteen) and רבי חייא (twenty-four) fit together.

Overview

This amud first finishes an earlier answer for רב: the משנה teaches that a person is responsible to guard his own body. Next, רב מרי suggests that מבעה means damage by water, and רב זביד suggests it means fire. The גמרא rejects both ideas using the grammar of a פסוק and the wording of the משנה. Then רבי אושעיא counts thirteen main categories of damage: four kinds of watchmen, five payments for injuring a person, and the four of our משנה. The גמרא explains why our משנה and רבי אושעיא list things differently. It does this by splitting 'person' into two kinds and by telling apart direct damage from damage that happens on its own. Finally, רבי חייא counts twenty-four categories, adding fines and theft. The גמרא explains that רבי אושעיא leaves out fines, and that רבי חייא separates money a person received in a permitted way from money he took in a forbidden way.

Opening lines

הָכָא נָמֵי, תְּנִי:

Here too, teach:

אָדָם – שְׁמִירַת גּוּפוֹ עָלָיו.

A person – the guarding of his body is upon him.

מַתְקֵיף לַהּ רַב מָרִי,

Rav Mari challenged it:

וְאֵימָא ״מַבְעֶה״ זֶה הַמַּיִם,

But say that 'Maveh' is water,

The steps (25)

  1. ResolutionRead the משנה as: a person must guard his own body
  2. Challengeרב מרי suggests מבעה means damage by water
  3. RejectionRejected: in the verse, fire is the one doing the boiling
  4. Challengeרב זביד suggests מבעה means fire
  5. RejectionRejected: the משנה lists מבעה and fire separately
  6. RejectionIf מבעה only explains fire, there would be just three categories
  7. RejectionFire has no living spirit, but the משנה says מבעה does
  8. RejectionThe משנה compares מבעה to fire, so it cannot be fire
  9. Statementרבי אושעיא counts thirteen categories of damage
  10. ChallengeWhy does our משנה leave out these nine?
  11. ResolutionThe word 'person' already includes everything a person does
  12. ChallengeThen why does רבי אושעיא list them separately?
  13. ResolutionTwo kinds of 'person'
  14. ChallengeThen he should count two kinds of ox too
  15. ResolutionSplitting 'ox' would not change anything
  16. ChallengeThe four watchmen are also a person damaging property
  17. ResolutionDirect damage versus damage that happens by itself
  18. Statementרבי חייא's list of twenty-four main categories begins
  19. StatementFinishing the list of twenty-four
  20. QuestionWhy does רבי אושעיא leave these out?
  21. Responseרבי אושעיא only lists money repayment, not fines
  22. ChallengeBut a thief and a robber pay money
  23. ResolutionHe already covers them with שומר חנם and שואל
  24. ChallengeThen why does רבי חייא list both?
  25. ResolutionPermitted possession versus forbidden possession