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Bava Kamma 57b

בבא קמא נ״ז ע״ב

Learn Bava Kamma 57b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Whether a לסטים מזוין is treated like a גנב (אביי and רב יוסף, and a rejected proof from a renter), then רב on an animal that fell into a garden.

Overview

רב יוסף holds that a לסטים מזוין (armed bandit) counts as a גנב (thief). אביי challenges him twice from ברייתות. First, a ברייתא says a שומר שכר does not pay כפל, but under רב יוסף he would pay כפל for a false armed-bandit claim. רב יוסף answers that a שומר שכר pays כפל only in that one case, unlike a שומר חנם. Second, a ברייתא calls its קל וחומר from a שומר שכר to a שואל unbreakable. רב יוסף answers that paying the קרן with no oath is stricter than paying כפל after an oath. The גמרא then tries to prove רב יוסף's view from a ברייתא about a renter. It rejects that proof three ways: through רבי מאיר, through רבה בר אבוה's reversed version, and through רבי זירא's unarmed-bandit case. Finally, the גמרא turns to the משנה about an animal that fell into a garden. רב says the owner pays for the benefit of a cushioned fall. The גמרא rejects linking this to רב's rule 'הָיָה לַהּ שֶׁלֹּא תֹּאכַל', and its new explanation continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

לֹא; אִם אָמַרְתָּ בְּשׁוֹמֵר חִנָּם –

No; if you said so regarding an unpaid guard,

שֶׁכֵּן מְשַׁלֵּם תַּשְׁלוּמֵי כֶפֶל,

that is because he pays a double payment,

תֹּאמַר בְּשׁוֹמֵר שָׂכָר –

will you say the same about a paid guard,

שֶׁאֵינוֹ מְשַׁלֵּם תַּשְׁלוּמֵי כֶפֶל?

who does not pay a double payment?

The steps (16)

  1. StatementThe ברייתא's refusal to compare a paid guard to an unpaid guard
  2. Challengeאביי: if an armed bandit counts as a thief, a paid guard would sometimes pay double
  3. Resolutionרב יוסף rereads the ברייתא: a paid guard pays double, but only in one case
  4. Challengeאביי's new challenge: the קל וחומר about a borrower
  5. Challengeאביי completes his challenge: the comparison should be breakable
  6. ResolutionPaying the principal with no oath is stricter than paying double after an oath
  7. ProofA ברייתא about a renter as possible support for רב יוסף
  8. ProofHow the proof works: the renter could have exempted himself with an oath
  9. ProofThe Renter Must Have Claimed an Armed Bandit, So an Armed Bandit Is a Thief
  10. RejectionMaybe the ברייתא Follows רבי מאיר, Who Treats a Renter Like an Unpaid Bailee
  11. RejectionOr Reverse the Opinions, as רבה בר אבוה Teaches
  12. Rejectionרבי זירא: He Claimed an Armed Bandit, but It Turned Out to Be an Unarmed One
  13. Statementרב explains the animal's benefit as a cushioned fall
  14. QuestionInference from רב and a suggested link to his other ruling
  15. RejectionThe two cases are not alike
  16. ResolutionSetting up a new explanation