Bava Kamma 72a

בבא קמא ע״ב ע״א

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Topic

Paying ארבעה וחמשה when the thief only partly lacked ownership, and when a שחיטה counts as done

Overview

This amud opens at the end of a talk between רבא and רב נחמן about a son who steals his father's animal and slaughters it. רב נחמן takes back what he said the day before, explaining that he was weak from not eating. רבא asks why the two halves of the ברייתא come out differently. רב נחמן answers that 'וּטְבָחוֹ' requires a slaughter that was entirely forbidden, and once the son owns a share, it is not. The גמרא then returns to the משנה about a thief who slaughters חולין in the עזרה and still pays ארבעה וחמשה. From that case, רב חביבי מחוזנאה proves that a שחיטה counts only at its end. רב הונא בריה דרבא tries to push the proof away, but רב אשי restores it. The answer for the 'start to finish' view is that the cut was begun outside the עזרה and finished inside. A second version ties the question to an argument between רבי שמעון and רבי יוחנן, and רב חביבי asks whether רבי יוחנן must hold that the ban on חולין slaughtered in the עזרה is not from the Torah. That question continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (11)

1. Statementרב נחמן explains why he answered poorly yesterday
2. Challengeרבא asks why the two halves of the ברייתא differ
3. ResolutionThe slaughter must be entirely forbidden
4. StatementA slaughter counts only at its end
5. ProofWhy the משנה proves slaughter counts only at the end
6. RejectionThe thief is liable for the first bit of the cut
7. RejectionThe verse requires a complete slaughter
8. ChallengeThen the משנה is a problem
9. ResolutionStarted outside, finished inside
10. StatementSecond version: an argument between אמוראים
11. ChallengeDoes רבי יוחנן hold the ban is not from the Torah?