Gemara Clarity

Bava Kamma 73b

בבא קמא ע״ג ע״ב

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Topic

Two lengths of תוך כדי דיבור in רבי יוסי's view, and רבא's rule that הכחשה is the beginning of הזמה, which אביי disputes.

Overview

The amud opens by finishing an explanation from the previous amud. רבי and רבי יוסי argue about testimony that is partly refuted, and their argument depends on whether words said right after a statement (תוך כדי דיבור) count as part of it. The גמרא challenges this from a משנה in תמורה. There, רבי יוסי says that someone who changes his mind within תוך כדי דיבור cannot undo his first label. The answer is that there are two lengths of תוך כדי דיבור: the time of a student's long greeting to his רב, and the time of a רב's short greeting to his student. רבי יוסי counts only the shorter one. Next, רבא rules that witnesses who were first contradicted and later made זוממין still get the punishment of זוממין, because הכחשה is the beginning of הזמה. He proves it from a ברייתא about witnesses testifying on a master who blinded his slave's eye and knocked out his tooth, reading it as a case with three sets of witnesses. אביי rejects the proof by reading the ברייתא as a case with only two sets of witnesses. He then begins to show why his reading is right, and that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

לָאו כְּדִיבּוּר דָּמֵי,

is not like one continuous statement,

וְרַבִּי יוֹסֵי סָבַר:

and Rabbi Yosei holds:

תּוֹךְ כְּדֵי דִיבּוּר כְּדִיבּוּר דָּמֵי.

within the time of speaking is like continuous speech.

וְסָבַר רַבִּי יוֹסֵי:

But does Rabbi Yosei hold

The steps (16)

  1. ResolutionThe dispute depends on תוך כדי דיבור
  2. ChallengeChallenge from the משנה in תמורה
  3. Challengeרבי יוסי's view in the משנה
  4. QuestionWhy state the obvious?
  5. Responseרב פפא: The change of mind happened within the short time window
  6. ResolutionTwo different lengths of the short time window
  7. Statementרבא: Witnesses contradicted first and later made זוממין are killed
  8. Proofרבא's proof from witnesses about a slave's eye and tooth
  9. QuestionWhat case is the ברייתא describing?
  10. ChallengeTwo more problems with the simple reading
  11. ResponseThe real case: three sets of witnesses
  12. ResponseWhy the master is pleased
  13. ProofThe middle witnesses are found to be lying and pay the slave
  14. Conclusionרבא's conclusion: contradiction is the start of הזמה
  15. Rejectionאביי: the second set reversed the story and made them זוממין at the same time
  16. Questionאביי asks how we know his reading is right