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Bava Kamma 8b

בבא קמא ח׳ ע״ב

Learn Bava Kamma 8b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Buyers of liened fields: giving up a protective תקנה, resold fields, and the seller's standing to argue against his creditor

Overview

The amud continues a ברייתא in which one buyer bought all of a debtor's fields, and each claimant collects from the field that was first liened to him. The גמרא asks why the buyer cannot use his threat about the deed of the זיבורית against the נזקין claimant too. It first answers that the case involves יתומים, but then gives a new reason. The rule against collecting from sold property while free property exists was made to protect buyers, so a buyer may give it up. This matches רבא's rule that a person may refuse a תקנת חכמים made for his own benefit, like רב הונא's wife who refuses support and keeps her earnings. Next comes the case where the buyer resold some of the fields. רבא teaches אביי that a second buyer receives all the first buyer's rights, including the right to refuse that rule. רבא then rules on when ראובן's creditor may collect from לוי, the second buyer. Finally אביי rules that a seller may argue in court against his creditor who seized the sold field, and a second ruling of his begins and continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

בְּנִזָּקִין נָמֵי נֵימָא הָכִי!

With damages too, let him say this!

אֶלָּא הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן –

Rather, with what are we dealing here?

בְּיַתְמֵי, דְּלָאו בְּנֵי פֵרָעוֹן נִינְהוּ,

With orphans, who are not obligated to repay,

וְשִׁיעְבּוּדָא דִּילֵיהּ עֲלֵיהּ דִּידֵיהּ רַמְיָא;

and his lien rests upon him;

The steps (18)

  1. ChallengeWhy can't the buyer use the same threat against the damages claimant?
  2. ResolutionThe case is about orphans, so the threat doesn't work
  3. ResolutionThe buyer gives up the rule that was made to protect him
  4. Proofרבא's rule: you may refuse an enactment made for your benefit
  5. QuestionWhich kind of enactment did רבא mean?
  6. Responseרב הונא's example: a wife may give up support and keep her earnings
  7. StatementIf the buyer kept only the best field, everyone collects from it
  8. StatementWhy everyone collects from the best field in the obvious case
  9. QuestionWhat if he sold the best field and kept the others?
  10. Responseאביי's first thought: everyone collects from the best field
  11. Challengeרבא: the second buyer gets all the first buyer's rights
  12. ConclusionThe second buyer inherits the first buyer's right to refuse
  13. StatementReuven's creditor may collect from Shimon or from Levi
  14. StatementOnly if Levi bought medium land, not best or poor land
  15. StatementOnly if Levi left no similar medium land with Shimon
  16. StatementWith a guarantee, the seller may fight the creditor in court
  17. StatementSecond version: even without a guarantee the seller may argue
  18. StatementOpening another ruling: a sale without a guarantee