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Bava Metzia 109b

בבא מציעא ק״ט ע״ב

Learn Bava Metzia 109b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Workers treated as already warned, how much a departing planter is paid for his improvement, and whether the wood of an aged mortgaged orchard counts as produce or principal.

Overview

The amud opens by finishing a list of workers who pay for damage they cause even without a warning. It then gives the general rule: any loss that cannot be undone counts as if they were warned. Next comes a story about a שתלא who wanted to leave for ארץ ישראל and asked to be paid for his improvement to the field. רבא pushes back twice, and רב פפא בר שמואל lowers the payment from the whole improvement, to half, to 'a quarter.' רב אשי explains that this 'quarter' is really a sixth of the whole, because only a sixth fits רב מניומי's rule that the owner must suffer no loss. רב אחא בריה דרב יוסף objects that the planter should not lose because the owner must pay a new אריס, and רב אשי praises the question without answering it. The גמרא then quotes more rulings of רב מניומי about the planter's share. Finally, a new case comes up: a mortgaged orchard that grew old. אביי says its wood is פירות and רבא says it is קרן. A ברייתא brought to challenge אביי is pushed aside, and the גמרא begins a new proof from a משנה about old vines that a married woman inherits.

Opening lines

וְסָפַר מָתָא –

and the town scribe —

כּוּלָּן כְּמוּתְרִין וְעוֹמְדִין דָּמֵי.

all of them are considered as already warned.

כְּלָלָא דְּמִילְּתָא:

The general rule of the matter:

כֹּל פְּסֵידָא דְּלָא הָדַר –

any loss that cannot be undone —

The steps (20)

  1. StatementThe town scribe is also treated as already warned
  2. ConclusionGeneral rule: a loss that cannot be undone
  3. StatementA departing planter asks to be paid for his improvement
  4. Challengeרבא: the land also made the field better
  5. ResolutionOnly half of the improvement
  6. Challengeרבא: now the owner must also pay a sharecropper
  7. ResolutionOnly a quarter of the improvement
  8. Statementרב אשי: the 'quarter' is really a sixth
  9. Proofרב מניומי: the owner must not lose
  10. ProofThe math: only a sixth leaves the owner whole
  11. ChallengeWhy should the planter lose for the sharecropper?
  12. Responseרב אשי praises the question as a hard one
  13. Statementרב מניומי's full ruling on the departing planter
  14. StatementOld vine gets half; flooded trees get a quarter
  15. StatementMortgaged orchard grows old: אביי says the wood is produce
  16. Statementרבא says the wood is principal
  17. ChallengeA ברייתא: a dried or cut tree is sold to buy land
  18. ChallengeDrying up in its time means the wood is principal
  19. RejectionThe ברייתא is about trees lost before their time
  20. ProofA new proof attempt from old vines a woman inherits