Gemara Clarity

Bava Metzia 18b

בבא מציעא י״ח ע״ב

Learn Bava Metzia 18b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Bava Metzia 18b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

When a found גט is returned: busy places, known matching names, witnesses, and exact סימנים

Overview

A גט was found in רב הונא's court, and the worry was that it might belong to a different couple with the same names. רבה found a משנה saying court documents are returned. The גמרא learns from this that even in a busy place, we only hold back the גט if we know there are two people with the same names. There are two versions of רבה's real case in the flax area of פומבדיתא. רבי זירא resolves a clash between a משנה and a ברייתא by saying it depends on whether caravans of travelers are common. The גמרא asks whether he agrees with רבה, and how each one reads the court-documents משנה. Then רבי ירמיה says the גט is returned when the witnesses signed only one such גט. רב אשי says it is returned when the owner gives a very exact mark, because he is unsure whether סימנים work by Torah law. The amud ends as a story about רבה בר בר חנה begins.

Opening lines

חָיְישִׁינַן לִשְׁנֵי שְׁוִירֵי,

We are concerned about two places called Sheviri,

וַאֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב חִסְדָּא לְרַבָּה:

And Rav Chisda said to Rabba:

פּוֹק עַיֵּין בָּהּ,

Go out and examine it,

דִּלְאוּרְתָּא בָּעֵי מִינָּךְ רַב הוּנָא.

for in the evening Rav Huna will ask you about it.

The steps (24)

  1. Statementרב הונא worries about two towns named שוירי
  2. Questionרב חסדא sends רבה to investigate
  3. Responseרבה finds a משנה: court documents are returned
  4. ProofProof: worry only if two people with the same names are known
  5. Statementרבה rules in practice on a גט found in the פומבדיתא flax house
  6. StatementAnother version: the flax market, despite many travelers
  7. StatementSecond version of where רבה's case happened: the flax-soaking place
  8. Statementרבי זירא quotes the משנה: a lost גט is valid only if found right away
  9. ChallengeThe ברייתא seems to return a found גט even after a long time
  10. ResolutionResolution: it depends on whether caravans are common
  11. StatementFirst version: רבי זירא agrees with רבה
  12. StatementSecond version: רבי זירא disagrees with רבה
  13. QuestionWhy didn't רבי זירא use רבה's approach?
  14. ResponseThe משנה does not clearly say 'even after a long time'
  15. QuestionWhat is the root of the disagreement between רבי זירא and רבה?
  16. Responseרבה's reasoning from the court-documents משנה
  17. Rejectionרבי זירא: the משנה never says the documents were found in court
  18. Resolutionרבי יִרְמְיָה: the witnesses signed only one גט for this name
  19. ChallengeIf so, why would the משנה need to say it?
  20. ResolutionWe might have worried that the names and witnesses just happened to match
  21. ResolutionA found גט is returned when the owner names an exact hole
  22. StatementOnly a hole by a named letter counts, not just any hole
  23. StatementWhy רב אשי wants such an exact mark
  24. StatementOpening a story about רבה בר בר חנה