Bava Metzia 23b

בבא מציעא כ״ג ע״ב

Learn Bava Metzia 23b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Bava Metzia 23b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Which features count as a סימן for lost items: knots, number, weight, cuts, seals, location, and recognition by sight

Overview

The גמרא keeps going through the משנה's list of found items the finder may keep, such as strings of fish and cuts of meat. Each time, it asks why a knot, a number or a weight does not count as a סימן. The answer each time is that in these cases everyone's items look the same. Along the way, רב ששת proves from a ברייתא that weight, and therefore number and measure too, can be a סימן. A cut of meat counts only if it has a special shape, not because of the body part it came from. Next the גמרא resolves a contradiction between barrels the finder keeps and jugs he must announce. One answer is sealed versus covered containers. אביי's answer is before versus after the wine storehouses open. The גמרא then asks whether the place an item was found counts as a סימן, and works through proofs and a story about pitch found near a winepress. Finally it explains the משנה's word אנפוריא as new vessels, which matters for a צורבא מרבנן who claims an item by recognizing it on sight.

Opening lines

The steps (30)

1. ChallengeWhy isn't the knot on a string of fish a sign?
2. ResolutionIt is the standard fisherman's knot
3. ChallengeWhy isn't the number of fish a sign?
4. ResolutionEvery string has the same number
5. QuestionIs a number a sign? A question to רב ששת
6. Responseרב ששת proves from weight that number is a sign
7. ChallengeWhy isn't the weight of the meat a sign?
8. ResolutionAll the cuts weigh the same
9. ChallengeThe cut itself should be a sign, as a ברייתא shows
10. ResolutionThe ברייתא means a cut with a special shape
11. ProofThe ברייתא's wording supports this answer
12. ChallengeBarrels belong to the finder, but jugs must be announced?
13. ResolutionThe משנה is about sealed jugs
14. ChallengeOpen barrels would be a loss on purpose
15. ResolutionCovered but not sealed
16. ResolutionBoth are sealed; the difference is timing
17. Proofאביי tells רב יעקב בר אבא to keep the barrel
18. QuestionIs the place where something was found a סימן?
19. ResponseThe barrels ברייתא shows location is not a סימן
20. RejectionThe ברייתא is about a riverbank
21. StatementWhy a riverbank is not a סימן
22. StatementAnother version: no place is a סימן
23. StatementThe man who found pitch near the winepress
24. ProofSuggestion that רב holds location is not a sign
25. RejectionThe real reason was the owner's despair
26. QuestionWhat are אנפוריא vessels?
27. ResponseNew vessels the owner has not looked at enough
28. ChallengeWhy should looking at them matter?
29. ResolutionIt matters for a Torah scholar who recognizes by sight
30. ProofWhy a Torah scholar is trusted