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Bava Metzia 34a

בבא מציעא ל״ד ע״א

Learn Bava Metzia 34a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

How a שומר who chooses to pay earns the thief's double payment (כפל): רבא's mechanism, רבי יוחנן on 'saying I will pay', and רב פפא on different guards

Overview

The משנה taught that a שומר who pays the owner for a stolen animal, instead of swearing, gets the thief's double payment (כפל). The גמרא asks how the owner can give away something that may never exist. רבא answers that the owner transfers the cow itself to the שומר, either from the time of the deposit or, in a second version, right before the theft. רבי זירא objects to the first version because of the fleece and offspring, and the גמרא explains the practical differences between רבא's two versions. Next, רבי יוחנן rules that the משנה's word 'paid' only means the שומר said 'I will pay', and a ברייתא about a renter supports him. רב פפא explains which guards earn the כפל by admitting they must pay, and the two versions of his statement disagree about a borrower. רב זביד, quoting אביי, says a borrower must actually pay, and a ברייתא using the word 'went ahead' (קידם) seems to support him. The reciters confirm that the two ברייתות were taught together, so the difference in wording counts. Finally the גמרא begins to discuss a שומר who changes his mind about paying, and this continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

מִי יֵימַר דְּמִגַּנְבָא,

Who can say that it will be stolen?

וְאִם תִּמְצֵי לוֹמַר דְּמִגַּנְבָא –

And even if you say that it will be stolen,

מִי יֵימַר דְּמִשְׁתְּכַח גַּנָּב,

who can say that the thief will be found?

וְאִי מִשְׁתְּכַח גַּנָּב –

And even if the thief is found,

The steps (29)

  1. ChallengeThe double payment may never come into existence
  2. Resolutionרבא: The cow itself is transferred retroactively
  3. Challengeרבי זירא: Then the fleece and offspring should also go to the שומר
  4. Resolutionרבי זירא: The transfer leaves out the fleece and offspring
  5. QuestionWhy assume every owner makes this exception?
  6. ResponseOutside profit people give away, body profit they keep
  7. StatementSecond version of רבא: The cow is transferred just before the theft
  8. QuestionWhat is the difference between the two versions?
  9. ResponseTwo practical differences between the two versions
  10. StatementSaying 'I will pay' is enough
  11. ChallengeThe משנה's wording seems to require real payment
  12. RejectionThe second half of the משנה points the other way
  13. ProofA ברייתא supports רבי יוחנן
  14. StatementPaid and unpaid guards gain the double payment by admitting they must pay
  15. StatementA borrower who says 'I will pay' does not get the double payment
  16. QuestionWhat exemption could a borrower ever have?
  17. ResponseHis only way out is rare, so he gives up nothing
  18. StatementSecond version: a borrower also gets the double payment
  19. Challengeרב זביד quotes אביי: a borrower must actually pay
  20. ProofA ברייתא supports רב זביד
  21. ChallengeIs the ברייתא a refutation of רב פפא?
  22. ResolutionThe משנה also says 'paid' and we read it as 'said'
  23. ChallengeThe ברייתא says 'went ahead,' which the משנה does not
  24. Resolution'Went ahead' means 'went ahead and said'
  25. ChallengeRenter says 'said,' borrower says 'went ahead'
  26. RejectionMaybe the two ברייתות were not taught together
  27. ProofThe experts confirm the two teachings were taught together
  28. StatementRefusing and then agreeing to pay clearly counts
  29. QuestionStarting the question about agreeing first