Bava Metzia 38a

בבא מציעא ל״ח ע״א

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Topic

Selling a spoiling deposit: the משנה's מחלוקת, the reasons of רב כהנא and רב נחמן בר יצחק, and רבי יוחנן's limit to normal loss

Overview

The amud opens by closing the previous discussion: both cases in that משנה follow the רבנן, taught in a 'not only this, but also that' style. Then a new משנה begins. If deposited produce is spoiling, the תנא קמא says the שומר may not touch it, while רבן שמעון בן גמליאל says he sells it in בית דין. רב כהנא explains that a person prefers his own produce. רב נחמן בר יצחק explains that the owner may already have made it תרומה ומעשר for other produce. רבי יוחנן limits the argument to normal loss: if the produce loses more than normal, everyone agrees it is sold. The גמרא shows this fits רב כהנא but not רב נחמן בר יצחק. It explains that such a sale goes to כהנים at the price of תרומה, and that the two sides disagree about how common and how early extra loss is. A ברייתא with רבי מאיר and the חכמים is then brought as a challenge, and the גמרא answers it. The amud ends as the גמרא begins a new question about oil and honey, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (29)

1. Challengeרבי יוסי's reason applies to both cases
2. ResolutionBoth cases follow the רבנן, taught as 'not only this but also that'
3. Statementמשנה: deposited produce that is going bad
4. QuestionWhy may the bailee not touch it?
5. Responseרב כהנא: a person prefers his own
6. Responseרב נחמן בר יצחק: the owner may have used it as תרומה
7. ChallengeA ברייתא: therefore the owner may make it תרומה
8. ProofThe word 'therefore' fits רב כהנא
9. ChallengeWhat does 'therefore' mean for רב נחמן בר יצחק?
10. ResolutionSince he may not sell, the owner can rely on the produce being there
11. StatementThe dispute is only about normal loss
12. QuestionDoes רבי יוחנן argue with רב כהנא too?
13. Responseרב כהנא was only talking about normal loss
14. ChallengeBut he said one קב over nine!
15. ResolutionIt was just an exaggeration
16. ChallengeA ברייתא lets the owner rely on the stored produce, so a sale could leave him eating טבלים
17. ResolutionLosing more than the normal amount is rare
18. ChallengeWhen extra loss does happen, selling it is still a problem
19. ResolutionThe produce is sold to כהנים at the price of תרומה
20. ChallengeWhy doesn't רב נחמן בר יצחק allow this same sale?
21. Resolutionרבה בר בר חנה's view: extra loss is rare and comes only later
22. Resolutionרב נחמן בר יצחק's view: extra loss is common and can come right away
23. StatementA ברייתא about spoiling deposits
24. StatementSimilar cases with charity collectors
25. ChallengeDoes רבי מאיר forbid selling even with extra loss?
26. ResolutionNo, the produce case is normal loss
27. ChallengeWine, oil and honey are clearly extra loss
28. ResolutionOnce spoiled, they stay that way
29. QuestionQuoting oil and honey to set up a new question