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Bava Metzia 63b

בבא מציעא ס״ג ע״ב

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Topic

Sales versus loans in the laws of ריבית: fixing the market price, early advance purchases and מי שפרע, payment for waiting, and extra coins found in a loan

Overview

רבא concludes that produce and its money value are treated the same. So a buyer may pay now at today's market price even if the seller has no produce yet. He answers a challenge from a ברייתא by saying it deals with paying back a loan, while his case is a plain sale. רבה and רב יוסף explain that the buyer gains nothing special, since with cash he could buy cheaply nearby. When אביי asks why the same logic would not permit lending a סאה for a סאה, רב יוסף answers that a loan is different from a sale. אדא בר אבא objects that the buyer saves a broker's fee. רבא says the buyer pays that fee too, and רב אשי says cash does the broker's job anyway. Next, someone who pays at the early advance price must show himself to the seller so the seller relies on the deal and the curse of מי שפרע applies. רב אשי adds that meeting him in the market is enough. Finally, רב נחמן teaches that any payment for waiting is ריבית. He rules on a discount from a wax seller, which is allowed only if the seller already has the wax and not if he only has credit in town. He also rules on extra coins found in a loan, and the גמרא begins to define how much extra counts as a possible mistake.

Opening lines

מָה לִי הֵן וּמָה לִי דְּמֵיהֶן – אָמְרִינַן,

[Since] we say: what difference to me, them or their value,

מָה לִי דְּמֵיהֶן וּמָה לִי הֵן – נָמֵי אָמְרִינַן.

we also say: what difference to me, their value or them.

וּפוֹסְקִין עַל שַׁעַר שֶׁבַּשּׁוּק,

And one may set a price by the market rate,

וְאַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאֵין לוֹ.

even though he does not have [the produce].

The steps (19)

  1. StatementProduce and its value are treated the same, so one may set a price by the market rate
  2. ChallengeA ברייתא says it is forbidden if he does not have the produce
  3. ResolutionThere it is a loan, here it is a sale
  4. StatementWhy fixing the market price is allowed: the buyer gains nothing special
  5. ChallengeThen lending a סאה for a סאה should also be allowed
  6. ResolutionA loan is different from a sale
  7. ChallengeDoesn't the buyer save a broker's fee?
  8. ResolutionThe buyer pays the broker's fee too
  9. ResolutionCash works as its own broker
  10. StatementEarly buyer must show himself at the threshing floor
  11. QuestionWhy does he need to show up?
  12. ResponseShowing up tells the seller the deal is real
  13. StatementMeeting the seller in the market is enough
  14. StatementThe general rule: paying for waiting is forbidden
  15. StatementPaying a wax seller early for a discount
  16. ChallengeIsn't this obvious?
  17. ResolutionThe case is a seller with credit in town
  18. StatementFinding extra coins in a loan
  19. QuestionHow much extra counts as a possible mistake?