Chullin 17a

חולין י״ז ע״א

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Topic

The view of the משנה on שחיטה versus stabbing (רבי עקיבא and רבי ישמעאל), רבא's reading of the three phrases of the משנה, and which knife notches make a knife unfit for שחיטה.

Overview

The גמרא first finishes rejecting the idea that the משנה's words "לעולם שוחטין" follow רבי ישמעאל. Under that reading the rule would be obvious, since in exile we are even farther from the מקדש. רב יוסף explains instead that the משנה follows רבי עקיבא. In his view, בשר נחירה (stabbed meat) was allowed in the מדבר and became forbidden in ארץ ישראל, and the משנה teaches that it stays forbidden even in exile. The גמרא sums up the root disagreement: for רבי עקיבא, בשר תאוה was never forbidden, and for רבי ישמעאל, בשר נחירה was never permitted. It then tests each view against פסוקים and a משנה, and both views survive. Next, רבי ירמיה asks about stabbed meat the Jews carried into ארץ ישראל, and the question ends in תיקו. רבה points out that the three phrases of the משנה must match one another, and רבא solves this by reading all three as being about the slaughterer: who, when and where, and with what tool. Finally, the חכמים of ארץ ישראל tell שמואל's father that a notch makes a knife unfit when it tears like a saw, and the גמרא begins a new ברייתא that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (25)

1. RejectionExile makes meat even more obviously allowed
2. Resolutionרב יוסף: the משנה follows רבי עקיבא
3. ResolutionWhy the משנה says "always slaughter"
4. QuestionWhat is the root disagreement?
5. ResponseTwo different starting points
6. ChallengeChallenge from the פסוק about slaughtering a קרבן
7. Resolutionקרבנות are a special case
8. ChallengeChallenge from the פסוק 'Will flocks and herds be slaughtered for them'
9. ResolutionFor them, stabbing counted as their slaughter
10. ChallengeChallenge from the משנה about covering the blood
11. ResolutionOnce stabbing became forbidden, it stayed forbidden
12. ChallengeHow could the gazelle and deer be permitted according to רבי ישמעאל?
13. ResolutionThe ban only covered animals fit for a קרבן
14. Questionרבי ירמיה asks about stabbed meat brought into the land
15. QuestionWhich time period is the question about?
16. ResponseThe question is about the time after the conquest
17. ResponseOr the question is about the seven years after all
18. ConclusionThe question stays unresolved
19. ChallengeHow do we explain the phrase 'בכל שוחטין'?
20. RejectionThe tools reading doesn't match the other two phrases
21. Resolutionרבא: all three phrases are about the person slaughtering
22. StatementThe משנה excludes the harvest sickle and the saw
23. Questionשמואל's father sends notched knives to ask about them
24. ResponseThe answer: a notch is a problem when it works like a saw
25. StatementOpening a new teaching