Chullin 19a
חולין י״ט ע״א
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Topic
Where on the windpipe a valid שחיטה may be done, and how cuts partly out of place (מוגרמת) are judged
Overview
The גמרא rules that a שחיטה from the שיפוי כובע (the slope of the thyroid cartilage) and below is valid. רב חנן בר רב קטינא challenges רב נחמן, who ruled this way, because the ruling seems to match neither רבנן nor רבי יוסי ברבי יהודה. רב נחמן answers that he relies on a received teaching, not on either side's reasoning. Next, רבי יהושע בן לוי sets out three levels of leniency for a cut that slipped too high (מוגרמת): רבנן, then רבי יוסי ברבי יהודה, then רבי חנינא בן אנטיגנוס. The הלכה follows רבי חנינא בן אנטיגנוס, as רב נחמן did. The גמרא then asks exactly which cut of thirds רבנן and רבי יוסי ברבי יהודה argue about: two-thirds properly and then one-third out of place, or the reverse. רב הונא and רב חסדא disagree, and the גמרא brings two versions of their debate, including a challenge to the proof from the משנה 'רובו של אחד כמוהו'. Last, the גמרא discusses three-part cuts, with רב הונא and רב יהודה reporting opposite rulings in the name of רב. רב חסדא tells רב הונא not to take back his ruling, and the reason comes on the next amud.
Opening lines
וְהִלְכְתָא מִשִּׁיפּוּי כּוֹבַע וּלְמַטָּה – כְּשֵׁרָה,
And the halacha is: from the incline of the thyroid cartilage and below, it is valid,
וְהַיְינוּ דְּשַׁיַּיר בְּחִיטֵּי.
and that is where he left over some of the arytenoid cartilage.
רַב נַחְמָן אַכְשַׁר
Rav Nachman declared valid
מִשִּׁיפּוּי כּוֹבַע וּלְמַטָּה,
a slaughter from the incline of the thyroid cartilage and below.
The steps (30)
- ConclusionThe final halacha: cutting from the slope of the thyroid cartilage and below is valid
- Statementרב נחמן rules the slaughter valid from the slope and below
- ChallengeWhose opinion is this? It fits neither side
- Resolutionרב נחמן relies on a received teaching
- StatementWhat רבנן call a diverted cut is valid for רבי יוסי ברבי יהודה
- StatementThe second half of the teaching of רבי יהושע בן לוי
- ChallengeIsn't that obvious?
- ResolutionWe might have thought he only answers רבנן
- ChallengeMaybe that mistaken reading is right
- ResolutionThe wording 'testified' proves he stands alone
- ConclusionThe הלכה follows רבי חנינא בן אנטיגנוס
- StatementDefining the case where רבנן and רבי יוסי ברבי יהודה argue
- Statementרב הונא: When the out-of-place cut comes first, everyone agrees it is invalid
- Challengeרב חסדא flips the case: the argument is when the bad cut comes first
- StatementHow the Rabbis tell the two cases apart
- Statementרב חסדא: When the proper two-thirds come first, everyone agrees it is valid
- Challengeרב יוסף questions the proof from the משנה
- Rejectionאביי pushes back on רב יוסף
- Resolutionרב יוסף narrows his point to slaughter
- StatementSecond version: where the argument really is
- StatementSecond version: when everyone agrees it is valid
- Challengeרב חסדא doubts that the majority rule is accepted by everyone
- Rejectionרב יוסף: not every majority rule comes from רבי יוסי
- Resolutionרב חסדא limits his doubt to majority rules about slaughter
- StatementDispute over a windpipe cut out of place, then properly, then out of place
- StatementThe reasons behind each ruling
- StatementThe reverse case: proper, out of place, proper
- Challengeרב יהודה is upset that רב הונא keeps ruling the opposite way
- Responseרב הונא admits רב יהודה was right to be upset
- Rejectionרב חסדא tells רב הונא not to back down