Gemara Clarity

Chullin 30a

חולין ל׳ ע״א

Learn Chullin 30a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Chullin 30a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Does שחיטה count from beginning to end or only at the end (the פרה אדומה and קרבן פסח proofs), and must שחיטה be one clear cut (שחיטה מפורעת)?

Overview

This amud continues the question of whether שחיטה counts only when it is finished. First, the גמרא shows why the משנה of the פרה אדומה gives no proof: that משנה only deals with cases where the פרה becomes פסול. Then רב אידי בר אבין brings a משנה about slaughtering a פסח during the festival while owning חמץ. He uses it to argue that שחיטה counts from the first cut to the last. אביי answers that the partly cut animal can still be redeemed for the value of a פסח, and a ברייתא shows that a convulsing animal still counts as alive. Next, רב rules that cutting in two or three places on the neck is kosher. שמואל and ריש לקיש disagree, because they require one clear cut (שחיטה מפורעת). רבי אלעזר challenges them from a משנה about two people slaughtering, and רבי ירמיה explains it as one knife held by two people. רבי אבא attacks this from the wording of a ברייתא, and רבי אבין begins to reword it; his answer continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

סְתִימְתָּאָה,

is cited unattributed,

אֲבָל חֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים

but the Rabbis say:

שְׁנַיִם שׁוֹחֲטִים זֶבַח אֶחָד.

two may slaughter one offering.

וּלְרַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן,

And according to Rabbi Elazar son of Rabbi Shimon,

The steps (18)

  1. StatementThe חכמים disagree: two may slaughter one offering
  2. ChallengeEven so, the משנה could have taught one man with two cloths
  3. ResolutionThe משנה only deals with a disqualified heifer
  4. Challengeרב אידי בר אבין brings a משנה about the פסח
  5. StatementThe earlier inference: unspecified slaughter is exempt
  6. ChallengeWhy is he exempt if a פסח outside its time is a שלמים?
  7. ConclusionA פסח outside its time needs its status uprooted
  8. ResolutionThe rule applies only to owners pushed off to פסח שני
  9. Challengeרב אידי's proof: שחיטה must count from beginning to end
  10. Resolutionאביי: it can still be redeemed for the value of a פסח
  11. RejectionA half-slaughtered animal can still be redeemed
  12. StatementCutting in two or three places is a valid slaughter
  13. Statementשמואל requires a clear, single slaughter
  14. Proofריש לקיש agrees and brings a פסוק
  15. ChallengeA משנה about two people slaughtering at different spots
  16. ResolutionThe משנה means one knife held by two people
  17. ChallengeThe ברייתא's wording only fits two knives
  18. Resolutionרבי אבין begins to fix the ברייתא's wording