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Chullin 69a

חולין ס״ט ע״א

Learn Chullin 69a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

How far the mother's שחיטה reaches for her עובר: the boundary of a fetus, a limb that came out, the offspring and milk of such an animal, and the פסוק that permits the fetus

Overview

The גמרא first tries to prove something from the משנה's closing כלל, but pushes the proof off: the extra words teach that a קלוט still inside a cow is permitted, even for רבי שמעון. רב חנניא then asks whether the עזרה counts as the boundary for a fetus of קדשים whose leg came out. אביי answers that a fetus's boundary is always its mother. אילפא asks about a leg that came out between the two סימנים, and רבא uses a קל וחומר to rule that the leg is טהור from נבלה. רבי ירמיה asks about the offspring of such a fetus. After several reframings, the גמרא's real question is whether that animal's milk may be drunk, and it ends in תיקו. Finally, the גמרא looks for the פסוק that permits pieces cut from a fetus. It drops 'בהמה בבהמה' because of the laws of תמורה and uses 'וכל בהמה', limited by 'אותה'. It then raises a challenge from רבי יוחנן's ruling about a dove-shaped fetus, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

זֶה הַכְּלָל: דָּבָר שֶׁגּוּפָהּ – אָסוּר,

This is the principle: something that is its body is forbidden,

וְשֶׁאֵינָהּ גּוּפָהּ – מוּתָּר.

and something that is not its body is permitted.

שֶׁאֵין גּוּפָהּ לְאֵתוֹיֵי מַאי?

'That is not its body' — what does it come to include?

לָאו לְאֵתוֹיֵי כְּהַאי גַּוְנָא?

Is it not to include a case like this?

The steps (26)

  1. ProofTrying to learn from the משנה's general principle
  2. RejectionThe extra words include a קלוט inside a cow
  3. QuestionA fetus of קדשים sticks its leg out inside the עזרה
  4. Responseאביי: the boundary of a fetus is its mother
  5. QuestionA leg that came out between the first and second cut
  6. Responseרבא proves it with a קל וחומר
  7. QuestionMust we worry about the offspring?
  8. QuestionWhich case does רבי ירמיה mean?
  9. ProofAny בן פקועה that mates with a normal animal has this problem
  10. ResolutionThe case is a fetus that mated with another בן פקועה
  11. QuestionDoes each limb make its matching limb, or is the seed mixed?
  12. RejectionObviously the seed is mixed, or blind parents would have blind young
  13. QuestionTwo prohibitions are allowed, but what about a third?
  14. ChallengeWhich opinion could ever have all three prohibitions?
  15. ProofThe source: גיד הנשה and חלב in a full-term fetus
  16. ConclusionWhatever grows through a forbidden thing is still permitted
  17. QuestionThe real question: may one drink this animal's milk?
  18. ConclusionThe question is left unresolved
  19. QuestionWhat is the source for permitting pieces cut from a fetus?
  20. ResponseThe source: 'an animal inside an animal'
  21. ChallengeChallenge: then תמורה should work on a fetus
  22. ChallengeThe משנה in תמורה says no substitution with fetuses
  23. ResolutionA new source: 'and every animal' includes the fetus
  24. ChallengeWhy not also pieces cut from the spleen or kidneys?
  25. Resolution'It': only a whole animal, not missing pieces
  26. ChallengeThen a dove-shaped fetus should be permitted