Gittin 16b

גיטין ט״ז ע״ב

Learn Gittin 16b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Whether two people who bring a גט from overseas must say 'בפנינו נכתב ובפנינו נחתם', and the dispute of רבנן and רבי יהודה behind it.

Overview

רב שמואל בר יהודה reports רבי יוחנן's ruling in two opposite versions. In the first version, a גט handed over by both bringers is valid, so two people who bring a גט from overseas do not need to say 'בפנינו נכתב ובפנינו נחתם'. In that version, רבנן invalidate a split testimony only as a גזירה, so people will not think ordinary documents can be confirmed by one witness. In the second version, רבנן invalidate the גט even when both hand it over. Here רבנן and רבי יהודה argue about the reason for the declaration: לשמה or קיום. The גמרא asks whether this makes the dispute of רבה and רבא a dispute of תנאים. It shows that each of them can fit both sides. רבה explains the argument as a גזירה in case people forget the law after they learned it. Next comes a challenge from the רישא, answered by עולא, and an objection from a ברייתא, which is also resolved. Finally רב יהודה supports the second version, and a story begins in which רבה בר בר חנה rules that two bringers do not need the declaration.

Opening lines

The steps (21)

1. StatementTwo people bringing a גט need not make the declaration
2. Challengeאביי challenges from the סיפא of the משנה
3. ResolutionYes, רבנן would call it valid
4. QuestionWhat is the disagreement about?
5. ResponseA גזירה about ordinary document ratification
6. StatementSecond version: even from both hands the גט is invalid
7. Challengeאביי asks: do רבנן really invalidate it even from both hands?
8. ResolutionAnswer: yes, רבנן invalidate it
9. QuestionWhat are רבנן and רבי יהודה arguing about?
10. ResponseTwo different reasons for the declaration
11. QuestionIs the dispute of רבה and רבא really a dispute of תנאים?
12. RejectionNo: רבא can follow the first version
13. Rejectionרבה also does not need to depend on the תנאים
14. ChallengeWhy doesn't רבי יהודה argue on the first case too?
15. Resolutionעולא: רבי יהודה argues on the first case too
16. Challengeרב אושעיא challenges עולא from a ברייתא
17. ResolutionThe ברייתא excludes a lone witness who saw only the signing
18. Proofרב יהודה: Two messengers are the dispute of רבי יהודה and the רבנן
19. Questionרב יהודה and רבה ask רבה בר בר חנה about two messengers
20. ResponseThey need not, because two witnesses would be believed anyway
21. StatementMeanwhile, someone walks in