Gemara Clarity

Gittin 4b

גיטין ד׳ ע״ב

Learn Gittin 4b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Gittin 4b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Why must a שליח say בפני נכתב ובפני נחתם? Can רבה (not experts in לשמה) and רבא (no witnesses available) each explain the משניות, and what is the practical difference between them?

Overview

The amud opens by finishing a suggestion: maybe the argument in the משנה is the same as the argument between רבה and רבא. That argument is about why a שליח must say בפני נכתב ובפני נחתם. רבה says the reason is that people overseas are not experts in writing a גט לשמה. רבא says it is because witnesses are not around to confirm the signatures. The גמרא rejects the suggestion, because each of them can explain the משנה his own way. Next the גמרא reads an inference out of the משנה's words 'from region to region overseas.' It gives two versions of this challenge, one against רבה and one against רבא, and answers both. Along the way it explains that within ארץ ישראל witnesses are easy to find, first because of the festival pilgrims and later because of fixed courts. The case of the two districts of עססיות seems to fit only רבא. The גמרא answers that רבה holds רבא's reason too and simply adds his own. It then names two cases where they really differ: two people bringing the גט, and a גט brought within one region overseas. Finally, the גמרא quotes a משנה about a שליח who 'is unable to say' the declaration and starts to ask what those words mean.

Opening lines

וְהָנֵי גְּמִירִי;

and these are learned;

וּמָר סָבַר

and the other master holds

לְפִי שֶׁאֵין עֵדִים מְצוּיִין לְקַיְּימוֹ,

it is because there are no witnesses available to confirm it,

וְהָנֵי נָמֵי לָא שְׁכִיחִי?

and these too are not commonly found?

The steps (23)

  1. ProofFinishing the suggestion that the argument depends on the reason
  2. RejectionBoth רבה and רבא can explain the משנה their own way
  3. Resolutionרבה: everyone agrees on לשמה, but they argue about a גזירה
  4. StatementThe two sides of the גזירה
  5. ResolutionHow רבא explains the משנה by his own reason
  6. ChallengeA line in the משנה seems to fit רבא and challenge רבה
  7. Resolutionרבה reads the inference differently
  8. ChallengeWhy infer something the משנה already says openly?
  9. ResolutionThe inference adds that it is fine even from the outset
  10. ChallengeA second version of the challenge, this time against רבא
  11. ResolutionChanging the inference to one region overseas
  12. ChallengeThen would region to region in ארץ ישראל need the declaration?
  13. ResolutionPilgrims make witnesses easy to find in ארץ ישראל
  14. ChallengeWhat about after the בית המקדש was destroyed?
  15. ResolutionFixed courts keep witnesses available
  16. ProofThe case of the two districts of עססיות
  17. ChallengeThis fits רבא but is hard for רבה
  18. Resolutionרבה also accepts רבא's reason
  19. QuestionSo what is the difference between them?
  20. ResponseThe difference: two people bring the גט
  21. ResponseA second difference: carrying a גט within one overseas region
  22. StatementQuoting the משנה about a שליח who cannot make the declaration
  23. QuestionAsking what 'he is unable to say' means