Gittin 89b

גיטין פ״ט ע״ב

Learn Gittin 89b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Gittin 89b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

When a rumor (קלא) that a woman is betrothed is taken seriously or ignored: קטן cases, אמתלא, rumors after אירוסין, and a rumor followed by a second betrothal

Overview

This amud keeps asking when a rumor (קלא) that a woman is betrothed can be ignored. רבא says a rumor about 'one of the sons of so-and-so' is set aside, because people will assume it was the betrothal of a קטן. A boy who only looks grown-up is still a קטן, so a rumor about him also means nothing. Next the גמרא explains the משנה's condition about an אמתלא, an innocent explanation. רב זביד says a reasonable explanation counts even if nobody said it. רב כהנא tries to support him from a משנה in יבמות, but the גמרא pushes that proof away. רב אשי then teaches that a rumor counts only if it was confirmed in בית דין, and the הלכה is that a rumor that comes up after אירוסין is ignored. Finally, שמואל rules on a rumor of a first betrothal followed by a definite second one, and the אמוראים debate which man must give a גט and which may marry her when the facts stay unclear.

Opening lines

The steps (29)

1. StatementA rumor about 'one of the sons' is set aside
2. StatementA minor who looks like an adult
3. StatementAn explanation counts even ten days later
4. StatementA reasonable explanation counts even if unsaid
5. Challengeרב פפא challenges from the משנה's wording
6. Resolutionרב זביד: the משנה means a possible explanation
7. Challengeרב כהנא brings a משנה that seems to support רב זביד
8. ResolutionThat case is different because the husband protests
9. ChallengeThen she should be allowed back even after marrying
10. ResolutionA married woman was penalized; a betrothed one was not
11. StatementA rumor not confirmed in court is not a rumor
12. StatementA rumor after marriage is ignored, but not one after betrothal
13. Statementרב חביבא: even after betrothal we ignore the rumor
14. ConclusionThe הלכה: we ignore the rumor
15. QuestionThe question sent to שמואל about a rumor followed by a real betrothal
16. Responseשמואל: she must leave, clarify the facts, and report back
17. QuestionWhat does 'clarify the matter' mean?
18. ResponseFirst suggestion: to cancel the rumor if the first betrothal was weak
19. ChallengeBut in שמואל's town they never cancel a rumor
20. ResolutionReal meaning: if the first betrothal was valid, no גט is needed from the second
21. StatementThis disagrees with רב הונא: a married woman who accepts a betrothal
22. Proofרב הונא's basis: a wife is not brazen in front of her husband
23. Resolutionשמואל limits רב המנונא's rule to when she speaks in front of her husband
24. QuestionWhat if the investigation gives no clear answer?
25. Responseרב הונא: the first man divorces and the second marries, not the reverse
26. Statementרב שיננא: the reverse order is also allowed
27. QuestionWhat if rumors spread about two different men?
28. Responseרב פפא: the first man divorces and the second marries
29. Statementאמימר: she is permitted to either man