Gemara Clarity

Gittin 9b

גיטין ט׳ ע״ב

Learn Gittin 9b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Gittin 9b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Why the ברייתא's list of ways a גט and a שטר שחרור are alike includes some shared rules and leaves out others.

Overview

This amud opens in the middle of a ברייתא that lists ways a גט and a שטר שחרור follow the same rules. The last listed item is that documents from gentile courts are kosher, except for these two. רבי מאיר counts a fourth way: the sender may take back either one before it is delivered. The גמרא asks what רבי מאיר's number 'four' rules out. It answers that it rules out the stencil method for witnesses who cannot write, which רבן שמעון בן גמליאל allows only for a גט. Next the גמרא asks why other shared rules are missing from the list. 'Not given after death' is left out because it applies to ordinary documents too, as רבי יוחנן's ruling about a dying man's gift shows. לשמה and מחובר are left out because the list covers only rules from the רבנן, not from the Torah. Then the גמרא asks why gentile-court documents are listed if they seem invalid by Torah law. It answers that this follows רבי אלעזר, for whom the handover witnesses make the גט work. The amud ends with a challenge from a משנה, which suggests the תנא קמא does not hold like רבי אלעזר. The answer comes on the next amud.

Opening lines

הָעוֹלִים בְּעַרְכָּאוֹת שֶׁל גּוֹיִם,

[Documents] that come out of gentile courts,

אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁחוֹתְמֵיהֶן גּוֹיִם – כְּשֵׁירִין,

even though their signers are gentiles, are kosher,

חוּץ מִגִּיטֵּי נָשִׁים וְשִׁחְרוּרֵי עֲבָדִים.

except for bills of divorce and bills freeing slaves.

וּכְדִבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר – בְּאַרְבָּעָה:

And according to רבי מאיר, [they are alike] in four [ways]:

The steps (17)

  1. StatementGentile-court documents, and רבי מאיר's fourth similarity
  2. ChallengeWhy does רבי מאיר give a number?
  3. ResolutionThe number leaves out the paper-stencil rule
  4. Resolutionרבן שמעון בן גמליאל limits the stencil rule to a גט
  5. ChallengeWho said anything about reading?
  6. ResolutionThe ברייתא is missing a line about witnesses who cannot read
  7. ChallengeIsn't there another way they are alike: not given after death?
  8. ResolutionThe list only includes rules that ordinary documents do not share
  9. ProofProof: an ordinary gift document is also not written after death
  10. ProofWhy the dying man's gift is not written after his death
  11. ChallengeWhat about the rule of writing it for her sake?
  12. ResolutionIt works for רבה but not for רבא
  13. ChallengeWhat about a document written on something attached to the ground?
  14. ResolutionThe list covers only rabbinic rules
  15. ChallengeGentile court documents seem invalid by Torah law, yet they are listed
  16. ResolutionThe case has valid delivery witnesses, following רבי אלעזר
  17. ChallengeThe משנה shows the תנא קמא does not hold like רבי אלעזר