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Kesubos 13b

כתובות י״ג ע״ב

Ketubot 13b

Learn Kesubos 13b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Is a woman believed that the man she was with was of fit lineage? This leads to the refutation of רב אסי, the status of her daughter, and the meaning of שתוקי.

Overview

The amud opens with the end of a source about a woman seen going off with a man to a hidden place or a ruin. She says he was a כשר כהן. רבן גמליאל and רבי אליעזר believe her, and רבי יהושע does not without proof. The גמרא asks why, according to רב אסי, the source lists two places. It concludes that the two cases are a ruin in the city and a ruin in the field, and that each one is needed. A ברייתא then records a back-and-forth between רבי יהושע and the חכמים, comparing this woman to a captive woman. Read properly, the ברייתא treats the 'speaking' woman and the pregnant woman as two separate cases, which refutes רב אסי. The גמרא learns from the ברייתא that the majority of people nearby does not decide this dispute, which supports רבי יהושע בן לוי. רבי יוחנן and רבי אלעזר then argue about whether the daughter's status follows the mother's. This leads to שמואל's case, which shows that a שתוקי can be fit and is only kept from כהונה. The amud ends by starting a story of an engaged couple before רב יוסף, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

אוֹ לְחוּרְבָּה —

or into a ruin —

וְאָמְרוּ לָהּ: מָה טִיבוֹ שֶׁל אִישׁ זֶה?

and they said to her: What is the nature of this man?

כֹּהֵן הוּא, וּבֶן אֲחִי אַבָּא הוּא.

He is a priest, and he is the son of my father's brother.

רַבָּן גַּמְלִיאֵל וְרַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר אוֹמְרִים: נֶאֱמֶנֶת,

Rabban Gamliel and Rabbi Eliezer say: She is believed,

The steps (30)

  1. StatementThe case of the woman seen going into a ruin with a man
  2. ChallengeWhy list two places according to רב אסי?
  3. ResolutionIt is one case: the hidden part of a ruin
  4. RejectionBut the text says 'or'
  5. ResolutionTwo kinds of ruins: in the city and in the field
  6. StatementWhy the field ruin is needed
  7. ConclusionWhy the city ruin is needed, so both are needed
  8. ChallengeA challenge from a ברייתא: is the woman believed?
  9. Proofרבי יהושע compares her to a captive woman
  10. RejectionThe חכמים: the captive has witnesses, this woman doesn't
  11. Rejectionרבי יהושע: her pregnancy is her witness
  12. ResolutionThe חכמים: captors are usually immoral
  13. Rejectionרבי יהושע: no one is guarded from sin
  14. StatementThe argument is only about herself, not her daughter
  15. QuestionThe exchange does not seem to match
  16. ResponseThe חכמים move from the pregnant woman to the 'speaking' woman
  17. ResponseThe rest of the debate read as being about the 'speaking' woman
  18. ConclusionTwo separate cases refute רב אסי
  19. ChallengeWhy not use the difference of who is around her?
  20. ProofSupport for רבי יהושע בן לוי: the majority does not matter here
  21. Statementרבי יוחנן: the daughter follows the mother
  22. Statementרבי אלעזר: even the lenient view makes the daughter unfit
  23. Statementרבה explains רבי אלעזר's reasoning
  24. Challengeרבי אלעזר challenges רבי יוחנן from a ברייתא
  25. ResolutionA שתוקי can still be fit
  26. QuestionIs there such a thing as a fit שתוקי?
  27. Responseשמואל's case of the ten כהנים
  28. QuestionWhat does שתוקי mean in שמואל's case?
  29. ResponseSilenced from כהונה, based on a פסוק
  30. StatementAn engaged couple comes before רב יוסף