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Kesubos 32a

כתובות ל״ב ע״א

Ketubot 32a

Learn Kesubos 32a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Why one who violates his sister both pays and is lashed: עולא's answers, his rule that money replaces lashes, and the search for its source

Overview

The גמרא is resolving a contradiction. Our משנה says a man who violates his sister pays a קנס, but the משנה in מכות says he gets מלקות, and we hold that a person is not both lashed and made to pay. עולא answers that our משנה is about a נערה, who gets a קנס, while the מכות משנה is about a בוגרת, who gets none. The גמרא pushes that even a בוגרת is owed בושת, פגם and צער, so the lashes case is narrowed to a שוטה who was מפותה. It adds that the lashes case could even be a נערה who is a יתומה and מפותה, since then no money is owed. From עולא's answer the גמרא draws his rule: wherever money and lashes both apply, one pays and is not lashed. It then searches for his source. It tries חובל בחבירו, then עדים זוממין, and rejects each because it has a special strict side and a special lenient side. Next it tries a הצד השוה from both cases, but challenges that too, because both cases share having some strict side and some lenient side. The discussion continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

וְקַיְימָא לַן דְּאֵינוֹ לוֹקֶה וּמְשַׁלֵּם.

And we hold that he is not both lashed and made to pay.

אָמַר עוּלָּא, לָא קַשְׁיָא:

Ulla said: It is not difficult:

כָּאן בַּאֲחוֹתוֹ נַעֲרָה,

here it is about his sister who is a young girl,

כָּאן בַּאֲחוֹתוֹ בּוֹגֶרֶת.

there it is about his sister who is an adult.

The steps (15)

  1. ChallengeA person is not both lashed and made to pay
  2. Resolutionעולא: one משנה is about a young girl, the other about an adult
  3. ChallengeBut an adult sister still gets shame and damage payments
  4. ResolutionThe case is a mentally incompetent woman
  5. ChallengeBut there is still payment for pain
  6. ResolutionThe case is a woman who was seduced
  7. ResolutionNow even a young sister can work: an orphan who was seduced
  8. Statementעולא's rule: pay the money, skip the lashes
  9. QuestionWhere does עולא get this rule?
  10. ResponseHe learns it from one who injures another
  11. ChallengeChallenge: the injurer case is too special to learn from
  12. ResponseNew source: learning from false witnesses
  13. ChallengeChallenge: false witnesses are also too special
  14. ResponseLearning from what both cases share
  15. ChallengeChallenge: both cases share a strict side and a lenient side