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Kesubos 36b

כתובות ל״ו ע״ב

Ketubot 36b

Learn Kesubos 36b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Virginity claims, a bad reputation and רב פפא's tainted document, and the משנה of girls who get no קנס, including רבי יהודה's view on a redeemed captive

Overview

The amud opens by finishing an answer about a בוגרת: a 'no blood' claim works against her, but an 'open entrance' claim does not. Next, סומכוס rules that a blind girl has no virginity claim against her. She may have been hurt in a fall without seeing it and telling her mother. רב ששת explains that a girl with a bad reputation from her youth gets no קנס. From this, רב פפא learns that a tainted document cannot collect a debt. The tainted document is one whose owner was caught by two witnesses trying to get it forged. A new משנה then lists girls who get no קנס: a convert, a captive or a maidservant freed after age three, and close relatives whose relations carry a court death penalty. The גמרא discusses רבי יהודה's view that a redeemed captive keeps her status, with רבה and אביי debating whether רבי דוסא truly agrees with him. Two answers, from רב פפא and רב הונא בריה דרב יהושע, explain an apparent contradiction in רבי יהודה's rulings about marrying a captive. A new contradiction from רב פפא בר שמואל begins at the very end and continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

אִי דְּקָא טָעֵין טַעֲנַת דָּמִים —

If he makes a claim about blood (that there was none),

הָכִי נָמֵי.

indeed, so it is (he has a valid claim).

הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן —

Here, with what are we dealing?

דְּקָטָעֵין טַעֲנַת פֶּתַח פָּתוּחַ.

With one who claims he found an 'open entrance.'

The steps (32)

  1. ResolutionA blood claim works, but an open-entrance claim does not
  2. Statementסומכוס: a blind girl has no virginity claim
  3. QuestionWhat is סומכוס's reason?
  4. Responseרבי זירא: she may have fallen and been injured
  5. ChallengeBut all girls fall down
  6. ResolutionOther girls see it and tell their mothers
  7. StatementA girl who leaves due to a bad reputation gets no fine
  8. ChallengeShe deserves stoning, so of course there is no fine
  9. Resolutionרב ששת: a girl with a bad reputation from her youth
  10. Statementרב פפא: a tainted document cannot collect
  11. QuestionWhat kind of tainted document?
  12. ChallengeNot a rumor of forgery, since רבא ignores town rumors
  13. ResponseThe tainted document: two witnesses say he asked them to forge
  14. ChallengeThe two cases are not really alike
  15. ResolutionHe may have forged it himself
  16. StatementNew משנה: freed convert, captive or maidservant get no fine
  17. Statementרבי יהודה: a redeemed captive keeps her status
  18. StatementClose relatives: death penalty means no fine
  19. Statementרבי יוחנן: רבי יהודה and רבי דוסא hold the same view
  20. Proofרבי דוסא: a redeemed captive may eat תרומה
  21. Rejectionרבה: רבי יהודה may only be lenient so a sinner won't profit
  22. RejectionSecond way: רבי דוסא may only be lenient about rabbinic תרומה
  23. Challengeאביי: רבי יהודה is also lenient where no sinner is involved
  24. ResolutionAnswer: there too, there is a special reason, so men won't avoid marrying her
  25. ChallengeDoes רבי יהודה really hold a captive keeps her purity?
  26. ChallengeThe ברייתא seems to contradict itself
  27. ResolutionAnswer: redeeming plus testifying is allowed; testifying alone is not
  28. ChallengeBack to the question on רבי יהודה
  29. Resolutionרב פפא changes the wording of רבי יהודה's view
  30. Resolutionרב הונא: רבי יהודה was arguing with the רבנן on their own terms
  31. ResolutionHow the רבנן defend telling the two cases apart
  32. ChallengeA new contradiction is introduced