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Kesubos 39a

כתובות ל״ט ע״א

Ketubot 39a

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Topic

Can a young girl conceive and give birth while still a נערה? The גמרא challenges the setup of רבא's question about a נערה who was violated and died, then reframes it as a question about whether death makes her a בוגרת and ends the father's right to the קנס.

Overview

The amud opens by testing רבא's question about a נערה who was violated and then died. The גמרא asks whether such a young girl could even conceive and give birth, citing a ברייתא about a קטנה who uses a מוך so she will not get pregnant. It suggests the whole pregnancy happened during נערות, but שמואל says נערות lasts only six months, too short for a birth. So רבא's question is reread: does a girl become a בוגרת in the grave, ending the father's right to the קנס? מר בר רב אשי asks it as 'does death make בגרות?', and the question ends in תיקו. Next, רבא asks אביי about a girl who became betrothed after the act. אביי rules the קנס still goes to the father, because אירוסין, unlike בגרות or נישואין, does not fully remove her from his authority. A new משנה then lists what a מפתה and an אונס pay and how they differ, including that the אונס must marry her unless she is forbidden to him. The גמרא begins asking what צער the אונס pays for, and רבי זירא challenges אבוה דשמואל's answer with a ברייתא that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

וּמִי מִעַבְּרָא?

And can she conceive?

וְהָתָנֵי רַב בִּיבִי קַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב נַחְמָן:

But didn't Rav Beivai teach before Rav Naḥman:

שָׁלֹשׁ נָשִׁים מְשַׁמְּשׁוֹת בְּמוֹךְ,

Three women engage in relations with a resorbent,

אֵלּוּ הֵן: קְטַנָּה, וּמְעוּבֶּרֶת, וּמְנִיקָה.

these are they: a minor, a pregnant woman, and a nursing woman.

The steps (21)

  1. ChallengeCan a young girl even conceive?
  2. ProofThe ברייתא defines the age of a קטנה
  3. ResolutionSuggestion: she conceived and gave birth as a נערה
  4. Challengeנערות lasts only six months
  5. ResolutionMaybe six months is only the minimum
  6. RejectionThe word אלא means exactly six months
  7. ResolutionThe real question: does she become a בוגרת in the grave?
  8. Questionמר בר רב אשי's version: does death make בגרות?
  9. ConclusionThe question remains unresolved
  10. Questionרבא asks about a girl who became betrothed after the act
  11. Responseאביי: the verse only cares about the time of the act
  12. ChallengeChallenge from the case of marriage
  13. ResolutionMarriage is like reaching adulthood
  14. ProofBetrothal does not fully end the father's authority
  15. StatementNew משנה: what the seducer and the rapist pay
  16. StatementThe differences between rapist and seducer
  17. StatementHe must marry her, unless she is forbidden to him
  18. QuestionWhat pain does the rapist pay for?
  19. ResponseThe pain of being thrown on the ground
  20. ChallengeWhat if he threw her onto silk?
  21. ChallengeA ברייתא shows the pain is not about the ground