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Kesubos 45b

כתובות מ״ה ע״ב

Ketubot 45b

Learn Kesubos 45b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

A betrothed נערה who grew up before her trial, where she and an idol worshipper are stoned, and the penalties of the מוציא שם רע

Overview

The גמרא first rejects the attempt to tie שילא's ruling (that a betrothed נערה who sinned and then became a בוגרת gets חנק) to רבי שמעון's view about a כהן גדול or נשיא who sinned before being appointed. It then brings רבי יוחנן, who rules she gets סקילה, and רבי אילעא, who learns this from the word ״הנערה״, meaning the girl she was when she sinned. רבי חנניא objects: then her false accuser should also get מלקות and pay מאה סלע. The גמרא answers that her punishment follows her act, done as a נערה, while his follows his speech, said when she was already a בוגרת. A ברייתא then teaches where a נערה המאורסה and an idol worshipper are stoned: at her father's doorway or the city gate, at the gate where he worshipped, and at the בית דין in a city that is mostly גוים. These rules are learned from the word ״שעריך״ and from רבי אבהו's chain פתח, פתח, שער, שעריך. Finally, a ברייתא about the מוציא שם רע is explained in two ways. רבי יהודה's 'flogged in any case' is shown to mean rabbinic מכת מרדות.

Opening lines

אֵימוֹר דְּשָׁמְעִינַן לֵיהּ לְרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן

Say that we heard regarding Rabbi Shimon

דְּאָזֵיל אַף בָּתַר יְדִיעָה,

that he follows even the time of awareness;

דְּאָזֵיל בָּתַר יְדִיעָה

that he follows the awareness

וְלָא אָזֵיל בָּתַר חֶטְאָה מִי שָׁמְעַתְּ לֵיהּ?

and does not follow the sin, did you hear him say that?

The steps (28)

  1. Rejectionרבי שמעון may only add awareness, not replace the time of the sin
  2. ProofProof: otherwise he would bring the offering of his new rank
  3. Statementרבי יוחנן: teach that she is stoned
  4. ChallengeBut the verse speaks of a young girl, and she is now grown
  5. Resolutionרבי אילעא: 'the girl' she already was
  6. ChallengeThen the husband should also get lashes and pay 100 סלע
  7. Rejectionרבי אילעא: Heaven save us from that view
  8. Rejectionרבי חנניא: on the contrary, save us from yours
  9. QuestionWhat is the reason for the difference?
  10. ResponseHer deeds caused hers, his lips caused his
  11. ConclusionShe sinned as a girl; he spoke when she was grown
  12. StatementWhere a betrothed young woman who committed adultery is stoned
  13. StatementThe same pattern for someone who worshipped idols
  14. QuestionWhat is the source for this?
  15. ResponseThe word "your gates" means the gate where he worshipped
  16. QuestionMaybe it means the gate where he was judged?
  17. ResponseProof from the earlier "your gates" in the same section
  18. StatementAnother teaching: your gates, not gentile gates
  19. ChallengeBut we already used that word
  20. ResolutionThe verse could have just said "gate"
  21. ConclusionTwo lessons from one word
  22. QuestionWhat is the source for a betrothed young woman?
  23. ResponseA chain of words: entrance, entrance, gate, your gates
  24. StatementA ברייתא on the punishment of a false accuser
  25. StatementLinking the ברייתא to the dispute of רבי אליעזר בן יעקב and the רבנן
  26. StatementA second reading: the whole ברייתא follows רבי אליעזר בן יעקב
  27. ChallengeAnother ברייתא says רבי יהודה exempts from flogging without relations
  28. Resolutionרב נחמן בר יצחק: the flogging is rabbinic מכת מרדות