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Kesubos 8b

כתובות ח׳ ע״ב

Ketubot 8b

Learn Kesubos 8b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

The ברכת אבלים and the ten-man quorum, the story of ריש לקיש's comfort blessings, and the customs of the house of mourning (ten cups, רבן גמליאל's simple burials).

Overview

The גמרא first settles where רבי יוחנן's rule applies: mourners are not counted in a quorum of ten. It moves the rule from the שורה, the line of comforters, to the רחבה, where the ברכת אבלים is said. It then explains that this blessing can be said all seven days when פנים חדשות, new visitors, arrive. To show this, it tells how ריש לקיש came on the second day to comfort רב חייא בר אבא, whose child had died. ריש לקיש's spokesman spoke about the child, and the גמרא explains that his harsh-sounding words were really an honor. The spokesman then said four blessings: praise of הקב"ה, comfort for the mourners, a blessing for the comforters, and a prayer for all ישראל. Along the way, אביי teaches not to speak of future deaths, because one should never 'open his mouth to the שטן.' Finally the גמרא lists the ten cups of wine set up for the house of mourning, and explains the cup once added for רבן גמליאל, who made burials simple and cheap. A new statement of רבי אלעזר begins at the end and continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

כִּי תַּנְיָא הָהִיא — בְּבִרְכַּת הַמָּזוֹן,

When that [ברייתא] was taught, it was about Grace after Meals,

כִּי קָאָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן — בְּשׁוּרָה.

when Rabbi Yochanan said [mourners are not counted], it was about the line.

וְאֶלָּא הָא דְּאָמַר רַבִּי יִצְחָק

But then, that which Rabbi Yitzchak said

אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן:

in the name of Rabbi Yochanan:

The steps (25)

  1. ResolutionThe ברייתא is about ברכת המזון; רבי יוחנן is about the line of comforters
  2. Challengeרבי יוחנן's rule mentions a blessing, and there is no blessing in the line
  3. Resolutionרבי יוחנן was talking about the square
  4. ChallengeThe blessing is said all seven days, but the square is only on the first day
  5. ResolutionIt happens when new visitors come
  6. Proofריש לקיש goes to comfort רב חייא בר אבא
  7. StatementThe spokesman opens with a פסוק about children dying
  8. StatementAnother version: the child was a young man
  9. QuestionWhat does 'His hand is still stretched out' mean?
  10. ResponseVulgar speech can turn a good decree into a bad one
  11. ChallengeHe came to comfort, but he caused pain
  12. ResolutionYou are important enough to suffer for the generation
  13. StatementWords in praise of הקב"ה
  14. StatementWords of comfort for the mourners
  15. Statementאביי: Speak of Past Drinking, Not Future Drinking
  16. ProofNever Open Your Mouth to the שטן
  17. ProofThe פסוק: Comparing Yourself to סדום
  18. StatementA Blessing for Those Who Come to Comfort
  19. StatementA Prayer for All of Israel
  20. StatementTen Cups of Wine in the House of Mourning
  21. StatementFour extra cups are added, then removed
  22. QuestionWhy is there a cup for רבן גמליאל?
  23. Responseרבן גמליאל made burials simple
  24. StatementToday people use even cheaper cloth
  25. Statementרבי אלעזר begins a new statement