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Kiddushin 79a

קידושין ע״ט ע״א

Learn Kiddushin 79a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Competing קידושין by a שליח and the principal, and the dispute between רב and שמואל on whether a girl's present בגרות reaches back in time.

Overview

The amud finishes the משנה about a father, or a woman, who sent a שליח to arrange קידושין and then made קידושין personally. Whichever קידושין came first counts. If nobody knows which came first, both men give a גט. The גמרא explains why both cases are needed: a father knows lineage, and a woman is careful about whom she marries. Next, רב and שמואל argue about a father who betrothed his daughter on the road while she betrothed herself in the city, when she is now a בוגרת. The גמרא sets the case on the exact day her six months of נערות ended. רב says her present status reaches back to the morning, while שמואל says she may have become a בוגרת only now. The גמרא challenges שמואל from a lacking מקוה and from a barrel of wine found turned to vinegar. Each time it answers that those cases have two weaknesses against the old status, while hers has only one. Finally, the גמרא suggests that the dispute matches an argument between תנאים, and that source continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

– שְׁנֵיהֶם נוֹתְנִים גֵּט.

both give a divorce document.

וְאִם רָצוּ –

And if they wish,

אֶחָד נוֹתֵן גֵּט, וְאֶחָד כּוֹנֵס.

one gives a divorce document, and the other marries her.

וְכֵן הָאִשָּׁה

And similarly, a woman

The steps (29)

  1. StatementWhen it is unknown whose betrothal came first, both give a divorce
  2. StatementThe same rule for a woman who appointed an agent and then betrothed herself
  3. StatementWhy the woman's case is needed: a man knows lineage
  4. ConclusionWhy the father's case is needed: a woman is careful about her match
  5. Statementרב and שמואל disagree about a father's and daughter's competing betrothals
  6. ChallengeWhen did this happen? It can't be during the six months, according to רב
  7. ChallengeIt can't be after the six months, according to שמואל
  8. ResolutionThe case is on the exact day the six months end
  9. ChallengeChallenge to שמואל from a מקוה found lacking
  10. ResolutionThe מקוה case is different because the item was impure before
  11. ChallengeOn the contrary, keep the מקוה in its old full status
  12. ResolutionThe lacking מקוה is right in front of us
  13. ChallengeBut here too a בוגרת is in front of us
  14. ResolutionShe may have become a בוגרת only now
  15. ChallengeThe מקוה could also have become lacking only now
  16. ResolutionTwo weaknesses there, only one here
  17. ChallengeHow is שמואל different from the barrel case?
  18. ChallengeContradiction between the barrel and the מקוה
  19. Resolutionרב חנינא: the barrel ruling follows רבי שמעון
  20. Proofברייתא proving רבי שמעון treats the מקוה as a doubt
  21. ChallengeAccording to the רבנן, the wine is טבל going back
  22. ResolutionThe barrel is different: טבל keeps its חזקה
  23. ChallengeThe wine also has a status of its own
  24. ResolutionThe wine is vinegar right in front of you
  25. ChallengeThe woman is also a בוגרת right now
  26. ResolutionMaybe she only became a בוגרת now
  27. ChallengeThen maybe the wine only soured now
  28. ResolutionTwo weaknesses against one
  29. QuestionMaybe this is a dispute between תנאים