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Makkos 8b

מכות ח׳ ע״ב

Makkot 8b

Learn Makkos 8b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Makkos 8b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Whether doing a מצוה affects liability (impurity from a מת מצוה, the עומר harvest, a father who strikes his son), and who goes into גלות for killing whom.

Overview

The amud opens by finishing a discussion between רבא and רבינא. A person made impure by a מת מצוה is still liable for entering the מקדש, and the source is the extra word 'עוד' in the פסוק. A second version places the discussion on a ברייתא about 'בחריש ובקציר תשבת'. There, רבי ישמעאל teaches that only optional harvesting is forbidden on שבת, so harvesting the עומר, which is a מצוה, is allowed. רבא first proves that plowing is never a מצוה, defends this against a challenge from a father who disciplines his son, and then switches to a stronger proof from comparing harvesting to plowing. A new משנה follows, explaining who goes into גלות for accidentally killing whom: father and son, Jews and others, and a גר תושב. The גמרא narrows the case of a father who is exiled until it reaches a son learning carpentry who already knows another trade. For a son who kills his father, רב כהנא says the sources follow רבי שמעון and the רבנן, while רבא says the ברייתא excludes only accidental wounding. Finally, the גמרא asks why a Jew would get lashes because of a כותי or an עבד. After the answer about an עד זומם fails, רב אחא בריה דרב איקא begins to explain it as a case of striking, and this continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

״טָמֵא יִהְיֶה״ – מִכׇּל מָקוֹם.

"He shall be impure" – in any case.

הָהוּא מִיבְּעֵי לֵיהּ לְכִדְתַנְיָא:

He needs that for what was taught in a ברייתא:

״טָמֵא יִהְיֶה״ – לְרַבּוֹת טְבוּל יוֹם,

"He shall be impure" – to include one who immersed that day;

״טוּמְאָתוֹ בוֹ״ – לְרַבּוֹת מְחוּסַּר כִּיפּוּרִים!

"His impurity is upon him" – to include one lacking atonement!

The steps (29)

  1. ResponseImpure in any case
  2. ChallengeThose words are already used for something else
  3. ResolutionThe source is the word 'עוד'
  4. StatementAnother version: the plowing and harvest ברייתא
  5. Statementרבי ישמעאל: only optional harvesting is forbidden
  6. ChallengeMaybe the plowing in the פסוק is plowing for a מצוה
  7. ResolutionPlowing is never a מצוה in itself
  8. ChallengeChallenge from a father who hits his son
  9. ResolutionDisciplining a son is a מצוה even when he is learned
  10. Resolutionרבא gives a new reason: harvesting is compared to plowing
  11. StatementNew משנה: who goes into exile for killing whom
  12. ChallengeHow can a father be exiled for killing his son?
  13. ResolutionThe son was already learned
  14. ChallengeEven a learned son may be disciplined
  15. ResolutionA carpenter's apprentice
  16. ChallengeTeaching a trade is also a מצוה
  17. ResolutionHe already knows another trade
  18. ChallengeA ברייתא says one who strikes his father is excluded
  19. ResolutionTwo different opinions
  20. Resolutionרבי שמעון's reasoning: חנק is more severe
  21. ResolutionFor the רבנן, accidentally killing a father can be atoned for by exile
  22. Resolutionרבא: the exclusion is about accidentally wounding a father
  23. QuestionWhat does 'everyone' in the משנה add?
  24. ResponseIt adds an עבד and a כותי
  25. ProofThe משנה matches a ברייתא about עבד and כותי
  26. ChallengeWhy would a Jew get lashes for cursing a כותי?
  27. ResolutionThe lashes are for being a lying witness
  28. ChallengeA slave cannot be a witness at all
  29. ResolutionThe case is where one struck the other