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Menachos 103b

מנחות ק״ג ע״ב

Menachot 103b

Learn Menachos 103b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Flawed meal-offering vows and the word "מנחה"; the sixty-עשרון limit for one כלי and why; exact measures of the חכמים; the blood of a dead mule.

Overview

The amud opens with זעירי's rule: a flawed vow for a מנחה still counts only if the person said the word "מנחה". רבא challenges this from several cases in the משנה. רב נחמן answers each time that the person did say "מנחה", and רבי שמעון's exemption is explained by רבי יוסי's view that a person's last words also count. A new משנה then teaches that a person may bring up to sixty עשרונים in one כלי. Someone who vows sixty-one splits them, sixty in one כלי and one in another. The משנה bases this on the ציבור's largest daily total of sixty-one, but רבי שמעון says the real reason is that only up to sixty can be mixed with oil. The גמרא repeats this debate between רבי יהודה בר אילעאי and רבי שמעון. רבי שמעון brings a פסוק and shows that every measure of the חכמים has a sharp cutoff, and רבי זירא explains that a מנחה must at least be fit for mixing. The amud ends with a story about measuring a dead mule's blood, a challenge that the blood of a נבילה is טהור, and רבי ביבי's silence, which he explains with רבי חנין's teaching about living without security over food.

Opening lines

אָמַר זְעֵירִי:

Ze'eiri said:

לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא דְּאָמַר ״מִנְחָה״,

They taught this only where he said "meal offering,"

אֲבָל לָא אָמַר ״מִנְחָה״ – לָא.

but if he did not say "meal offering" — no.

יָתֵיב רַב נַחְמָן

Rav Nachman was sitting

The steps (32)

  1. Statementזעירי limits the rule to someone who said the word meal offering
  2. ChallengeChallenge from the case of plain flour
  3. ResolutionAnswer: he did say meal offering
  4. ChallengeChallenge from the case without oil and frankincense
  5. ResolutionSame answer for the oil and frankincense case
  6. ChallengeChallenge from the case of half a tenth
  7. ResolutionSame answer for the half tenth case
  8. ChallengeChallenge from the case of a tenth and a half
  9. ResolutionThe case is half a tenth followed by a tenth
  10. ChallengeWhy does רבי שמעון exempt him?
  11. Resolutionרבי שמעון follows רבי יוסי: final words count too
  12. StatementNew משנה: up to sixty tenths in one vessel
  13. StatementSixty-one tenths must be split, like the ציבור's largest day
  14. StatementAn individual brings one less than the community
  15. Challengeרבי שמעון rejects the comparison to the community
  16. Statementרבי שמעון's own reason: sixty is the most that can be mixed
  17. ChallengeThe חכמים ask whether one extra עשרון can really matter
  18. ResolutionAll measures of the חכמים have exact cutoffs, like a מקוה
  19. QuestionThe גמרא asks for the source of sixty in one כלי and one in another
  20. ResponseThe limit comes from the community's largest offering
  21. ChallengeThe community's sixty-one are never mixed together
  22. QuestionThe חכמים ask for רבי שמעון's own reason
  23. ResponseA מנחה must be able to be mixed
  24. ChallengeCan sixty really be mixed but not sixty-one?
  25. ResolutionEvery measure of the חכמים has a sharp line
  26. ResolutionMore examples of exact cutoffs: food and cloth
  27. ChallengeWhy should being unable to mix matter?
  28. Resolutionרבי זירא: it must at least be fit for mixing
  29. StatementThe blood of רבי's mule was measured
  30. ChallengeBut the blood of a dead animal is pure
  31. Questionרבי ביבי is silent and is asked why
  32. Responseרבי ביבי explains with רבי חנין's teaching on three levels of insecurity