Menachos 109b

מנחות ק״ט ע״ב

Menachot 109b

Learn Menachos 109b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 109b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

A repentant כהן who served עבודה זרה (רב נחמן vs. רב ששת), and the story of בית חוניו

Overview

This amud opens in the middle of a מחלוקת between רב נחמן and רב ששת. The question is whether a כהן who served עבודה זרה and then did תשובה may serve again in the בית המקדש. רב נחמן proves from a ברייתא that a כהן who slaughtered for an idol on purpose and repented may serve. רב ששת answers that the ברייתא is talking about an accidental case. The גמרא then shows that they argue the same way about bowing to an idol and about declaring it a god, and explains why each of the four cases had to be taught. Next the גמרא returns to the משנה and infers from its wording that בית חוניו was not עבודה זרה. A ברייתא tells the story of שמעון הצדיק's death and the jealousy between his sons חוניו and שמעי. In רבי מאיר's version, חוניו built an idolatrous altar in Egypt. In רבי יהודה's version, he built it לשם שמים, based on a פסוק in ישעיהו. Along the way, the חכמים, רבי יהושע בן פרחיה and the story of שאול teach how people cling to power. At the end, אביי explains how רבי מאיר reads רבי יהודה's פסוק: it is about princes whom חזקיה made vow to give up עבודה זרה, and that ברייתא continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (25)

1. Statementרב ששת's reason: he became an idolatrous priest
2. Proofרב נחמן brings a ברייתא about a כהן who repented
3. ProofNarrowing the ברייתא down to intentional slaughter
4. Rejectionרב ששת reads the ברייתא as an accidental case
5. StatementTwo more disputes: bowing and declaring
6. ResponseWhy the slaughter case was needed after the sprinkling case
7. ResponseWhy the bowing case was needed after the slaughter case
8. ConclusionWhy the declaring case was needed after the bowing case
9. StatementThe משנה's wording shows בית חוניו is not idol worship
10. ProofA ברייתא supports this view: the year שמעון הצדיק died
11. ResponseThe old man in white and the old man in black
12. Statementשמעון הצדיק dies, and the כהנים stop blessing with the Name
13. Statementשמעון הצדיק names חוניו, and שמעי becomes jealous
14. Statementשמעי tricks חוניו into looking disgraceful
15. Statementחוניו runs away and builds an altar for עבודה זרה
16. ConclusionThe חכמים learn a lesson about jealousy over a position
17. Rejectionרבי יהודה says the story happened differently
18. Statementחוניו tricks שמעי the same way
19. StatementThe plot is exposed and חוניו runs away
20. Proofחוניו builds an altar in Egypt לשם שמים, backed by a פסוק
21. ConclusionThe חכמים's lesson in רבי יהודה's version
22. Statementרבי יהושע בן פרחיה: how power changes a person
23. ProofProof from שאול המלך
24. QuestionHow does רבי מאיר explain רבי יהודה's verse?
25. Responseרבי מאיר reads the פסוק as being about חזקיה and the princes