Menachos 44b

מנחות מ״ד ע״ב

Menachot 44b

Learn Menachos 44b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Which parts of the קרבנות hold each other back: the מנחה and נסכים, the blood placements, and the animals of the מוספין. Also, the order of the מנחה and the נסכים.

Overview

The amud opens by finishing the earlier discussion of תפילין with a פסוק from ישעיהו about life and healing. A new משנה then teaches that the מנחה (flour and oil) and the נסכים (wine) do not hold each other back. It also teaches that the blood placements on the outer מזבח do not hold each other back. The גמרא brings a ברייתא where the רבנן and רבי disagree about the order of the מנחה and the נסכים. After trying several פסוקים, the גמרא concludes that everyone agrees the מנחה comes first when the two are brought with a זבח. They argue only when the מנחה and נסכים come by themselves. There, רבי puts the נסכים first because the שירה is sung over them. A ברייתא then shows from a פסוק in דברים that one blood placement on the outer מזבח is enough for כפרה. A new משנה teaches that the different animals of the מוספין do not hold each other back, and רבי שמעון prefers one bull with its נסכים over many bulls without them. The גמרא explains that this משנה means the מוספין of ראש חודש and שבועות in ספר במדבר, not those of סוכות, because the תורה says 'כַּמִּשְׁפָּט' about סוכות.

Opening lines

The steps (19)

1. ConclusionClosing verse about those who wear תפילין
2. StatementFlour, oil, wine and blood placements do not depend on each other
3. StatementWhich comes first: meal offering or libations
4. ChallengeWhat does רבי do with the other verse?
5. Resolutionרבי uses the verse for a different lesson
6. ChallengeDoesn't the פסוק 'זבח ונסכים' support רבי?
7. ResolutionThe רבנן use 'זבח ונסכים' for זעירי's teaching
8. ChallengeBoth sides need both פסוקים, so neither one proves order
9. ResolutionA new source for the רבנן: 'עולה ומנחה'
10. ChallengeBut רבי also has the פסוק 'עולה ומנחה'
11. ResolutionEveryone agrees when there is a זבח; they argue only when the מנחה and נסכים come alone
12. ResolutionWhy רבי puts the libations first when they come alone
13. StatementQuoting the משנה: outer altar blood placements do not hold each other back
14. ProofA ברייתא gives the פסוק: one placement is enough
15. StatementNew משנה: the festival animals do not hold each other back
16. Statementרבי שמעון: one bull with libations is better than many without
17. QuestionWhich holiday's bulls and sheep does the משנה mean?
18. ChallengeIt cannot mean the offerings of סוכות
19. ResponseIt means ראש חודש and שבועות in ספר במדבר