Menachos 65b

מנחות ס״ה ע״ב

Menachot 65b

Learn Menachos 65b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 65b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Proving against the בייתוסים that שבועות does not always fall on a Sunday

Overview

This amud continues the argument with the בייתוסים, who said the count to שבועות must always start after a regular שבת, so שבועות would always fall on a Sunday. First רבן יוחנן בן זכאי knocks down an elderly בייתוסי's 'love of Israel' argument. Then he brings a real proof: one פסוק says 'fifty days' and another says 'seven complete weeks,' and complete weeks happen only when פסח begins on שבת. Next comes a memory list. After it, רבי אליעזר, רבי יהושע, רבי ישמעאל and רבי יהודה בן בתירא each bring their own proof that 'ממחרת השבת' means the day after the first day of פסח. A ברייתא then teaches that every single person must count the עומר. In the same ברייתא, רבי יוסי בר יהודה proves from the fixed number of fifty days that the count cannot depend on the weekly שבת. The amud ends with רבי יהודה בן בתירא saying that proof is not needed. His own proof comes on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (16)

1. RejectionIf משה loved Israel, why did they wander forty years?
2. ChallengeThe old man complains that this is a brush-off
3. ResponseOur תורה can surely answer your idle talk
4. ProofTwo verses: fifty days or seven complete weeks
5. ResolutionComplete weeks only when פסח falls on שבת
6. StatementMemory list for more proofs
7. Proofרבי אליעזר: The count depends on the court
8. Proofרבי יהושע: Counting to שבועות is like counting to the new month
9. ChallengeWhy the בייתוסים' view breaks the comparison
10. Proofרבי ישמעאל: The עומר must be brought at the start of the festival
11. ProofThe word שבת above and below
12. StatementEvery person must count
13. QuestionWhich שבת does the תורה mean?
14. ProofThe count is always exactly fifty days
15. ChallengeThe weekly-שבת reading gives a changing number
16. Rejectionרבי יהודה בן בתירא says the earlier proof is not needed