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Nedarim 14a

נדרים י״ד ע״א

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Topic

Vows that do not take effect: why 'חולין' is listed, the source that a נדר needs a דבר הנדור, and when an empty vow still needs a חכם

Overview

The גמרא finishes asking whose view the משנה's case of 'חולין' follows. Under רבי מאיר the needed inference does not work, and under רבי יהודה the case repeats the earlier part of the משנה. The first answer is that 'חולין' was simply listed together with pig meat and עבודה זרה. רבינא suggests instead that it teaches that these vows need no שאלה to a חכם. That idea is rejected, because the סיפא already shows this, so 'חולין' was mentioned only in passing. Next the גמרא brings the פסוק 'איש כי ידר נדר לה׳' as the source that a נדר works only when it is linked to a דבר הנדור. It explains that 'לאסור אסר' does not include things the תורה forbids. Then a ברייתא saying 'like my mother's flesh' means nothing seems to contradict the משנה. אביי answers that the vow has no force מדאורייתא but needs שאלה מדרבנן. רבא answers that the ברייתא is about תלמידי חכמים and the משנה is about an עם הארץ. Support for רבא comes from a ברייתא about vowing by the תורה, with the comments of רבי יוחנן and רב נחמן.

Opening lines

לָאו אַתָּה שׁוֹמֵעַ הֵן!

from a 'no' do you hear a 'yes'?!

וְאֶלָּא רַבִּי יְהוּדָה,

But rather, if it is רבי יהודה,

הַיְינוּ רֵישָׁא!

that is the same as the first clause!

אַיְּידֵי דְּקָתָנֵי ״כִּבְשַׂר חֲזִיר״,

Since it teaches 'like pig meat',

The steps (14)

  1. ChallengeFinishing the challenge against רבי מאיר
  2. ChallengeIf it follows רבי יהודה, the case is a repeat
  3. Resolution'חולין' was listed only to go along with the others
  4. Resolutionרבינא: 'חולין' teaches that no שאלה is needed
  5. ChallengeThe end of the משנה already shows no שאלה is needed
  6. ConclusionConclusion: 'חולין' was mentioned only in passing
  7. QuestionWhat is the source for this rule?
  8. ResponseThe source: a vow must be linked to a vowed item
  9. ChallengeBut the same פסוק also mentions a forbidden item
  10. ResolutionThat phrase is needed for a different teaching
  11. ChallengeA ברייתא contradicts the משנה about 'like my mother'
  12. Resolutionאביי: nothing by the תורה, but a חכם by the רבנן
  13. Resolutionרבא: scholars versus unlearned people
  14. ProofSupport for רבא from a vow made by the Torah