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Nedarim 17b

נדרים י״ז ע״ב

Learn Nedarim 17b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Does a second נזירות (or a second שבועה) take effect on top of the first? The גמרא challenges רב הונא from our משנה, from רבה, and from a ברייתא about two נזירות.

Overview

The amud opens by ending an earlier challenge to רב הונא, which stays a קשיא (a difficulty, not a full refutation). Then the גמרא challenges him from our משנה: 'יש נדר בתוך נדר, ואין שבועה בתוך שבועה.' If the משנה meant two different נזירות periods ('today, tomorrow'), the matching oath case would be two different foods, and both oaths would take effect. So it seems the משנה means the same words said twice, and it says a repeated נזירות does take effect, which goes against רב הונא. רב הונא answers that the משנה does mean 'today, tomorrow'. The matching oath case is an overlapping oath ('figs', then 'figs and grapes'), which does not take effect. The גמרא pushes back with רבה's ruling: because of a מיגו, such an overlapping oath takes effect even on the figs. The answer is that רב הונא does not hold like רבה. Finally the גמרא brings a ברייתא about two נזירות and shows that its case must be 'נזיר today' said twice. The challenge this raises against רב הונא continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

אֵין נֶדֶר בְּתוֹךְ נֶדֶר!

There is no vow within a vow!

קַשְׁיָא.

It is a difficulty.

תְּנַן: יֵשׁ נֶדֶר בְּתוֹךְ נֶדֶר,

We learned: There is a vow within a vow,

וְאֵין שְׁבוּעָה בְּתוֹךְ שְׁבוּעָה.

but there is no oath within an oath.

The steps (11)

  1. ConclusionThe previous challenge to רב הונא stays a difficulty
  2. StatementQuoting our משנה: a vow within a vow, but no oath within an oath
  3. QuestionWhat case is the משנה talking about? A first suggestion
  4. RejectionThat suggestion fails: the matching oaths would both take effect
  5. ChallengeSo the משנה must mean the same words said twice, which goes against רב הונא
  6. Resolutionרב הונא's answer: the משנה means 'today, tomorrow', and the matching oaths overlap
  7. ChallengeChallenge from רבה: the 'figs and grapes' oath does take effect on figs
  8. Resolutionרב הונא disagrees with רבה
  9. ChallengeChallenge from a ברייתא about two נזירות
  10. QuestionWhat case is the ברייתא talking about? Not 'today, tomorrow'
  11. ResponseThe ברייתא must mean 'נזיר today' said twice