Nedarim 33b

נדרים ל״ג ע״ב

Learn Nedarim 33b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Nedarim 33b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Paying a מודר's debt according to חנן or everyone, and returning a lost item when a נדר forbids benefit

Overview

The משנה allowed a person to pay off the debt of someone who is forbidden by a נדר to benefit from him. רב הושעיא explains that this follows חנן, who holds that paying someone else's obligation without being asked is not a real benefit to him. רבא says everyone could agree, if the loan was given on condition that it need not be repaid. The גמרא quotes the משנה where חנן argues with the בני כהנים גדולים about a man who supported another man's wife while her husband was overseas. רבי יוחנן בן זכאי praises חנן's view. The גמרא then explains why רבא and רב הושעיא each kept his own explanation: רב הושעיא worries about a גזירה, because a no-repayment loan could be confused with a normal one. Finally, the גמרא turns to the משנה's rule that one may return a lost item. רבי אמי and רבי אסי argue whether this is allowed even when the returner is the forbidden one, because of the 'פרוטה of רב יוסף'.

Opening lines

The steps (11)

1. ResolutionThe ruling follows חנן
2. Resolutionרבא: Everyone can agree in a special loan case
3. QuestionWhat is חנן's opinion?
4. Responseחנן: Supporting another man's wife loses the money
5. StatementThe בני כהנים גדולים disagree: he swears and collects
6. Conclusionרבי יוחנן בן זכאי: חנן spoke well
7. StatementWhy רבא did not explain the משנה like רב הושעיא
8. ConclusionWhy רב הושעיא did not explain the משנה like רבא
9. StatementNext line of the משנה: returning a lost item
10. StatementFirst view: allowed only when the owner is the one forbidden
11. StatementSecond view: allowed both ways, because the coin case is rare