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Nedarim 80b

נדרים פ׳ ע״ב

Learn Nedarim 80b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

The case of a wife's vow 'if I do not bathe', whether oaths count as vows, and what counts as עינוי for vows and for יום הכיפורים

Overview

The משנה listed vows a husband can cancel, including 'if I do not bathe' and 'if I do not adorn myself.' A simple reading of 'if I do not bathe' fails, because she could just bathe and nothing would be forbidden. רב יהודה first says she conditioned it on bathing in foul flax water. That answer does not work for adorning, because smearing on נפט is not adornment. So he explains that she joined a vow with an oath. רבינא asks why the משנה then says only 'vows.' רב אשי answers that we either add 'and oaths,' or that oaths are also called vows, as 'כנדרי רשעים' shows. Next the גמרא asks how רבנן can call not bathing עינוי when bathing on יום הכיפורים carries no כרת. רבא answers that עינוי means suffering felt right away for יום הכיפורים, but anything that leads to suffering for vows. Finally the גמרא begins to set רבי יוסי against himself, since he ranks a city's laundry above others' lives, and this continues on the next עמוד.

Opening lines

שַׁנֵּית ״אִם אֶרְחַץ״.

You have explained "if I bathe."

״אִם לֹא אֶרְחַץ״ הֵיכִי דָּמֵי?

"If I do not bathe": what is the case?

אִלֵּימָא דְּאָמְרָה:

If you say that she said:

״תִּיתְּסַר הֲנָאַת רְחִיצָה לְעוֹלָם עָלַי

"The benefit of bathing shall be forbidden to me forever

The steps (13)

  1. QuestionWhat is the case of 'if I do not bathe'?
  2. ChallengeThe simple reading needs no cancelling
  3. Resolutionרב יהודה: bathing in disgusting flax water
  4. ChallengeThe same reading fails for adorning
  5. Resolutionרב יהודה's second answer: a vow combined with an oath
  6. ChallengeThen the משנה should say 'vows and oaths'
  7. ResolutionFirst answer: add 'and oaths' to the משנה
  8. ResolutionSecond answer: oaths count as vows
  9. ProofProof: 'like the vows of the wicked' includes an oath
  10. ChallengeIf not bathing is affliction, why no כרת for bathing on יום הכיפורים?
  11. Resolutionעינוי means something different for יום הכיפורים and for vows
  12. Challengeרבי יוסי's ruling about a city's spring
  13. ChallengeIf laundry involves suffering, so should bathing