Gemara Clarity

Niddah 29a

נדה כ״ט ע״א

Learn Niddah 29a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Niddah 29a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

When a fetus counts as born (head versus most of the body), and relying on רוב for an unknown miscarriage

Overview

The amud opens with the closing line of a discussion about ערכין. It then turns to a fetus that comes out in pieces or feet-first. רבי אלעזר says the head does not count as birth here until most of the body is out, while רבי יוחנן says the head alone counts. The גמרא asks whether this depends on שמואל's rule about נפלים, gives other versions of the dispute, and defends רבי יוחנן from the wording of the משנה. רב פפא and רב זביד link the dispute to a ברייתא, and the ברייתא defines 'most of the head' in three ways. A new משנה then covers a miscarriage of unknown kind. The גמרא tests רבי יהושע בן לוי's rule that we follow the majority of women, who give birth to a real baby, both against the משנה and against a ברייתא about an animal's בכור. The amud ends as רבין reports an objection from the law of a טועה, which is explained on the next amud.

Opening lines

לְחַלֵּק בֵּין עֵרֶךְ אִישׁ

To distinguish between the valuation of a man

לְעֵרֶךְ אִשָּׁה.

and the valuation of a woman.

יָצָא מְחוּתָּךְ אוֹ מְסוֹרָס וְכוּ׳.

If it came out in pieces or reversed, etc.

אָמַר רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר:

Rabbi Elazar said:

The steps (30)

  1. ResolutionClosing line: the verse is needed to separate a man's valuation from a woman's
  2. Statementרבי אלעזר: even if the head came out, it is not yet a birth
  3. Statementרבי יוחנן: if the head came out, the head counts as birth
  4. QuestionDo they argue about שמואל's rule for non-viable fetuses?
  5. RejectionEveryone agrees about a whole fetus; they argue only about one born in pieces
  6. StatementAnother version: both sages reject שמואל
  7. StatementA third version: the sages argue directly about שמואל
  8. ChallengeThe משנה's wording challenges רבי יוחנן
  9. ResolutionThe משנה Means In Pieces And Feet-First Together
  10. ChallengeBut The משנה Says 'Or'
  11. ResolutionIn Pieces Or Whole, But Both Feet-First
  12. Statementרב פפא Links The Dispute To A ברייתא
  13. QuestionWhat Does רבי יוסי Mean?
  14. ResponseThe תנא קמא Says The Head Counts, רבי יוסי Needs Most Of The Body
  15. Challengeרב זביד objects: feet-first, most of the body must count
  16. Resolutionרב זביד's new reading of the ברייתא
  17. ProofA ברייתא that says exactly what רב זביד said
  18. Response'The proper way' means most of the head came out
  19. ResponseThree opinions on what counts as 'most of the head'
  20. StatementThe משנה: a miscarriage of unknown kind
  21. StatementMiscarriage in a river: follow the majority
  22. ChallengeChallenge from the משנה's rule of נדה
  23. ResolutionKnown to be pregnant vs. not known
  24. StatementAn animal left pregnant and came back empty
  25. ChallengeWhy not follow the majority of animals?
  26. Resolutionרבינא: the missing discharge weakens the majority
  27. ChallengeIf ALL animals discharge, this would be a sure בכור
  28. ResolutionCorrect the wording: MOST animals discharge
  29. Challengeרבין reports a puzzling objection from the case of a forgetful woman
  30. QuestionWhat is the law of the forgetful woman?