Gemara Clarity

Niddah 39b

נדה ל״ט ע״ב

Learn Niddah 39b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Niddah 39b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Does a woman's regular cycle (וסת) still worry us when its day falls during her ימי זיבה? רב פפא tries to prove it from a משנה, using שמואל's explanation, and רב הונא בריה דרב יהושע pushes back.

Overview

רב פפא wants to prove that we still worry about a woman's usual day of bleeding even when that day falls in her ימי זיבה. He uses שמואל's reading of the משנה. A woman who usually sees on day 22 shifted to day 27, and the משנה forbids both days, even though her old day now lands in ימי זיבה. רב הונא בריה דרב יהושע pushes back. Maybe the 22 days should be counted from day 27, and then the day lands in her ימי נדה, so there is no proof. He supports this with a chicken: when a broken routine starts again, it restarts from the latest event. רב פפא answers with the מחלוקת between ריש לקיש and רבי יוחנן about fixing a וסת during ימי נדה. He argues that רבי יוחנן's case shows we count from a usual day even when she did not see on it. רב הונא בריה דרב יהושע explains רבי יוחנן's case differently: the 1st, the 1st, the 25th, and the 1st again, where the 25th is just extra blood. רבין and the נחותי ימא reported רבי יוחנן his way, and the פרק בנות כותים ends.

Opening lines

וְאָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל:

And Rav Yehuda said in the name of Shmuel:

לָא שְׁנָא אֶלָּא חֲמִשָּׁה עָשָׂר לִטְבִילָתָהּ,

They taught this only about fifteen days from her immersion,

שֶׁהֵן עֶשְׂרִים וּשְׁנַיִם לִרְאִיָּיתָהּ,

which are twenty-two days from her sighting,

וְשִׁינְּתָה לְיוֹם עֶשְׂרִים וְשִׁבְעָה;

and she shifted to day twenty-seven;

The steps (11)

  1. Statementשמואל explains how the משנה counts the days
  2. Proofרב פפא's proof: her old day falls in her ימי זיבה, yet it is still forbidden
  3. StatementHow רב פפא is counting
  4. Rejectionרב הונא בריה דרב יהושע challenges the counting: maybe it lands in her ימי נדה
  5. ProofThe chicken proves we count from the latest sighting
  6. Challengeרב פפא brings up the debate on fixing a cycle during ימי נדה
  7. ResponseDefining the case: sightings on the 1st and the 5th
  8. Proofרב פפא's conclusion: we count from the start of the month
  9. Rejectionרב הונא בריה דרב יהושע gives a different case for רבי יוחנן
  10. Conclusionרבין and the נחותי ימא support רב הונא בריה דרב יהושע
  11. ConclusionHadran — Closing the chapter of בנות כותים