Gemara Clarity

Niddah 3b

נדה ג׳ ע״ב

Learn Niddah 3b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Niddah 3b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

שמאי's reasons for saying a woman is impure only from when she sees blood, and the חזקיה–רבי יוחנן dispute over a basket where a שרץ is found.

Overview

This amud continues the discussion of why שמאי says a woman is impure only from the moment she sees blood. The גמרא first shows how the earlier explanations of his reason differ in practice: the barrel, מקוה and מבוי only challenge the חזקה explanation. The other two explanations differ over a woman using a cloth (מוך), as explained by אביי and רבא. A משנה about a basket of טהרות, where שמאי answers הלל that 'a woman has no bottom,' supports the reason that earlier blood would have come out. רבא gives a different reason: protecting פריה ורביה, and a ברייתא backs him. The גמרא then defends each version against the other's source. For רבא, הלל misunderstood שמאי. For the other version, פריה ורביה is only why שמאי refused הלל's suggested fence. Next comes a new argument between חזקיה and רבי יוחנן about a basket where a שרץ is found in another corner. The גמרא explains it as a basket without a base but with rims, and compares it to רבי ינאי's rule about pails of water. It closes by starting a second answer, that שמאי and הלל agree only about an unchecked basket, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

אִיכָּא בֵּינַיְיהוּ

There is a difference between them

לְמִרְמֵי חָבִית וּמִקְוֶה וּמָבוֹי —

regarding raising a contradiction from the barrel, the ritual bath, and the alleyway:

לְהַאיְךְ לִישָּׁנָא אִיכָּא לְמִרְמִינְהוּ,

according to that version, there is room to raise them as contradictions;

לְהָנֵי לִישָּׁנֵי לֵיכָּא לְמִרְמֵי.

according to these versions, there is no room to raise a contradiction.

The steps (28)

  1. ResponseThe difference between the first explanation and the other two
  2. QuestionWhat is the difference between the second and third explanations?
  3. ResponseThe difference is a woman using a cloth, according to אביי and רבא
  4. ProofA teaching supports the 'it would have come out' explanation
  5. Challengeהלל challenges שמאי from a basket of pure items
  6. Challengeהלל asks: what is the difference between the basket and the woman?
  7. Resolutionשמאי answers: the basket has a bottom, the woman does not
  8. Statementרבא gives a new reason: protecting the מצוה of having children
  9. ProofA ברייתא supports רבא
  10. ChallengeBut another source matches the 'it would have come out' reason
  11. Resolutionהלל misunderstood שמאי's reason
  12. Resolutionשמאי corrects הלל and also answers on הלל's terms
  13. ChallengeThe reverse challenge: the other version has a problem too
  14. Resolutionהלל accepts שמאי's reason but asks for a safeguard
  15. Resolutionשמאי: a safeguard would stop couples from having children
  16. Rejectionהלל: the safeguard is only for pure items
  17. Resolutionשמאי: even for pure items, the husband would pull away
  18. StatementA memory sign for the coming discussions
  19. StatementThe basket argument: are the earlier pure items still pure?
  20. ChallengeBut שמאי and הלל agree the basket's earlier items are impure
  21. ResolutionA basket with a base versus a basket with no base
  22. QuestionWhy does רבי יוחנן say impure if there is no base?
  23. ResponseThe basket has rims that can hold a שרץ inside
  24. ChallengeTen pails of water: with rims, all the water is impure
  25. ChallengeDoes חזקיה disagree with רבי ינאי?
  26. ResolutionWater slides, produce does not
  27. ResolutionPeople don't mind leftover water, but they want all the produce
  28. Resolutionשמאי and הלל agree only about a basket that was not checked